Obama hopeful on reaching US debt deal with Republicans

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression

Musicology. Emphasis in Wagner studies. What are your credentials?

I can spot a misplaced apostrophe. That's about it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

No, the previous president punished the entire nation with a war that should have never been fought and the entire world with the worst financial crisis since the 1930's.

Truth be told Tak, war is an a multi-billion dollar industry. It serves a large part of our working class. I would dare say (without proof) that the manufacturing business above and beyond military materials is gone from this country. It is found in China. The military machine industry is found here in the US. I can only imagine what the economy would be like if this facet of the economy was removed.

There is a old line from somewhere and it goes, "Killing is my business and business is good.'

Has there really been a presidency since WW2 that did not have some kind of crisis/war/police action/occupation of another country?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Truth be told Tak, war is an a multi-billion dollar industry. It serves a large part of our working class. I would dare say (without proof) that the manufacturing business above and beyond military materials is gone from this country. It is found in China. The military machine industry is found here in the US. I can only imagine what the economy would be like if this facet of the economy was removed.

There is a old line from somewhere and it goes, "Killing is my business and business is good.'

Of course, if that were still the case, we would not be in the dire straits that we find ourselves.

Has there really been a presidency since WW2 that did not have some kind of crisis/war/police action/occupation of another country?

There has not, but only the war in Iraq and Vietnam stick in my head as cases of wars being thought without necessity.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

There is a old line from somewhere and it goes, "Killing is my business and business is good.'

I think it was from the band Megadeath.

But it also applies to the Military Industrial Complex that Ike warned about.

[yubba]

This government can't function in a peaceful environment, it has to have a security threat, or a boogey man, it gives the government and politicions imagenary powers, that aren't in the constitution, point in fact the TSA {thousands standing around}

[Sailor Steve]

So, which president created the Patriot Act?

"Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad.
-James Madison

[Gerald]

By President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001!

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

"Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad.
-James Madison

It's also overused, but still true:

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.” - Hermann Goering

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

There has not, but only the war in Iraq and Vietnam stick in my head as cases of wars being thought without necessity.

Yes, these are wars without necessity but both still drove the military industry. It would seem, we as a nation, need war as part of our economy.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Platapus

But it also applies to the Military Industrial Complex that Ike warned about.

Interesting. I did not know Ike had the foresight to see the Military Industrial Complex would become part of the fabric of our economic society.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by yubba

This government can't function in a peaceful environment, it has to have a security threat, or a boogey man, it gives the government and politicions imagenary powers, that aren't in the constitution, point in fact the TSA {thousands standing around}

It does not give them imaginary powers. These only provide an avenue to generate more business in military defense and homeland security. Liken it to going GREEN! This is another industry that is generating business development, employment and revenues. Exactly what war and protecting the homeland has done. It is a shovel ready project that requires no shovels, just some uncertainty in security and a dash of attempting to right a wrong.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Interesting. I did not know Ike had the foresight to see the Military Industrial Complex would become part of the fabric of our economic society.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Eisenh...rewell_address

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Eisenh...rewell_address

Thank you Mookie!

But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs, balance between the private and the public economy, balance between the cost and hoped for advantages, balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable, balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual, balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress. Lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration. The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their Government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well, in the face of threat and stress.

Such foreshadowing and foresight. Simply amazing. We have lost that balance Ike speaks of. And what does Ike say would happen during inbalance? Frustration! Yes, for decades we have understood these truths but somehow we have lost complete understanding of the truths. We live in frustration.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.

Ike is right on the money here.

Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual --is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.

Absolutely facinating!

Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose.

This has been thrown out the window. We lead with arms and talk about it with intellect and decent purpose after the fact.


From this speach I would say Ike was quite the thinker. His speach backs up what I see and work with everyday.

[Armistead]

Corporations need tax breaks, with the extra profits they can invest in more plants and hire more people.....in China or India.

You really think with extra profit they'll invest it here?

[Gerald]

President Obama, speaking at a news conference on Wednesday, said that Republicans must agree to end tax breaks for corporate interests.

The rap on President Obama is that he’s too professorial, too cool, too prone to dissecting a problem logically and then attempting to explain it to the public.

If that’s the case, then it wasn’t Mr. Obama who stood in front of the news media on Wednesday.

From the moment he started his prepared remarks in the East Room, it was clear that the president was frustrated with his Republican adversaries, who have spent the last several weeks accusing him of failing to lead. House Speaker John A. Boehner did it again moments after the news conference, saying the president “has been AWOL.”

White House officials say that such accusations have not gotten under the president’s skin. But in the more than hour-long news conference, Mr. Obama made clear that he views the upcoming high-stakes negotiations over the nation’s debt as a test for the Republicans of the very leadership skills they say he lacks.

Mr. Obama did not lay down a “red line” beyond which he would refuse to negotiate. But he repeatedly dared Congressional Republicans to side with oil companies, hedge fund managers and corporate jet owners against the interests of the elderly, schoolchildren and the middle class. His tone throughout was defiant.

The question is whether Mr. Obama’s pointed remarks about his Congressional adversaries will help jump-start the stalled debt negotiations, or will have the effect of backing each side further into a corner even as the Aug. 2 deadline for raising the nation’s borrowing capacity nears.

And it remains to be seen whether Mr. Obama, who faces a re-election battle next year, is beginning a concerted effort to push back against the Republican charges that he has failed to lead the country out of its economic mess. That charge, more than anything else, has animated the campaigns of his potential 2012 adversaries.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...nsequences/?hp


Note: Update Record, June 30, 2011, 7:35 am