Gaza aid flotilla raid: Turkey criticises Israel report

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Vendor

The movie's opening in Germany,

Does it!? Last thing I learned about it was that it was officially banned over charges of racism and inflammatory hate propaganda. I mentioned this in one posting here or in another thread.

If they have chnaged their mind, then some lobbies have done a hgreat job again. The first movie already was an insult of human dignity, and hate-dripping racism pure. It painted Israelis as being as bad - if not worse - than Nazi war criminals and doctpors doiung experiments in KZs. From what I heared, the second movie now should be even worse, if that even is possible.

You try to be smart above you intelligence.

It is you that is making silly assumptions and you that thinks information released by your government and your military must somehow be from the arab media, that demonstrates plain ignorance of the topic you are making a futile attempt at addressing.

Thats why IDF and security forces are there.
No setelments no IDF =total anarchy
thriving ground for terrorist.

That makes no sense at all.

Israel withdrew from Gaza so their influence while exist is not such big as noisy.

Compare the numbers involved

IDF 40 km away.

Thats another epic fail on your part, not only do you undermine your own point but you cannot even see why your point made no sense in the first place.

i did

Clearly not.

Was it?

Did Israel achieve its stated objectives?
If thats too hard for ya how about......did Israel achieve its revised objectives after it was failing to achieve its stated objectives?
A simple two letter answer in the form of "no" will be sufficient from you unless you want to lie again

Israel does its best on its own.

You really need a history lesson, start with basic history of Israel 101.

They do not so bad compeering to hammas.
All thats way they have lots of enemies in Arab world.

What has that got to do with the price of cheese?

You are not so smart do you?
Thats exacly it -WAKE UP MAN.

As I said, your views make no sense on that matter.

Impractical......

All three plus naive and detatched from reality.

Says who Tribsman......

All impartial observers and negotiators, if you have a problem with that then it paints yourself for what you are which explains your blindness.

Whats between you and Dimitrus.

What it is is that both you and he have developed that siege mentality which blocks your brain from any real rational thought on the issue, you are in effect spouting the same level of rubbish as the loony fringe in the former mandated territories.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It is you that is making silly assumptions and you that thinks information released by your government and your military must somehow be from the arab media, that demonstrates plain ignorance of the topic you are making a futile attempt at addressing.
.

You takings bull again or tried to read between lines again and came up with UFO theory.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Did Israel achieve its stated objectives?
If thats too hard for ya how about......did Israel achieve its revised objectives after it was failing to achieve its stated objectives?
A simple two letter answer in the form of "no" will be sufficient from you unless you want to lie again
.

It definitely brought some peace to southern Israel.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

You really need a history lesson, start with basic history of Israel 101.
.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

What has that got to do with the price of cheese?
.

You work at dairy?

Originally Posted by Tribesman

As I said, your views make no sense on that matter.
.

Told you you are not as smart as you think......

Originally Posted by Tribesman

All impartial observers and negotiators, if you have a problem with that then it paints yourself for what you are which explains your blindness.
.

Yes my Guru...

Originally Posted by Tribesman

What it is is that both you and he have developed that siege mentality which blocks your brain from any real rational thought on the issue, you are in effect spouting the same level of rubbish as the loony fringe in the former mandated territories.

Its not siege mentality.
Simply building whole scheme of making peace here on strength and magic of UN or EU is simply stupid and naive.
We should simply withdraw because no body like us?
Lets exchange our security for good publicity which usually last until IDF is forced to deal with something.
EU will end all economic relation with Israel tomorrow morning?

Israel can survive here only from position of strength we never will be welcomed here.
As for now arab world becomes more and more radical so good relation with Sweden its not exactly what we need for our survival.

Im actually for two state solution for a different reason even tho i know at hart that Israel will pay big price for it.
I know it will not make us any better in the face of world community and i expect you to come running here complaining that Zionist drop bombs on poor children just because some shmocks fired few little rockets toward downtown Jerusalem.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Does it!? Last thing I learned about it was that it was officially banned over charges of racism and inflammatory hate propaganda. I mentioned this in one posting here or in another thread.

If they have chnaged their mind, then some lobbies have done a hgreat job again. The first movie already was an insult of human dignity, and hate-dripping racism pure. It painted Israelis as being as bad - if not worse - than Nazi war criminals and doctpors doiung experiments in KZs. From what I heared, the second movie now should be even worse, if that even is possible.

According to the article, so it should be, but it will come out in other countries first, and then in Israel, of course

You takings bull again or tried to read between lines again and came up with UFO theory.

Your very silly assumptions are there throughout the topic in plain writing by yourself for all to see.

Israel can survive here only from position of strength we never will be welcomed here.

Which is why your views are anti Israel as you support measures which are not only weakening the State but demonstrating the weakness in a very public manner.

It definitely brought some peace to southern Israel.

In a set of questions that can only have one possible answer you balk at facing facts
That shows all that needs to be said, you simply cannot face reality and either avoid issues raised or simply lie and throw about baseless accusations.
Get well soon, that flu must have gone right to the head.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Does it!? Last thing I learned about it was that it was officially banned over charges of racism and inflammatory hate propaganda. I mentioned this in one posting here or in another thread.

If they have chnaged their mind, then some lobbies have done a hgreat job again. The first movie already was an insult of human dignity, and hate-dripping racism pure. It painted Israelis as being as bad - if not worse - than Nazi war criminals and doctpors doiung experiments in KZs. From what I heared, the second movie now should be even worse, if that even is possible.

I think It's a B movie,crap

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Vendor

According to the article, so it should be, but it will come out in other countries first, and then in Israel, of course

It did start indeed. The ban has been changed into an age 18 movie. Some cinemas whom got offered the movie seem to voluntarily boycot it. It seems it also is shown on none of the major stages here, but in small niche cinemas only.

The scaring thing is that reports from Turkey that where on TV yesterday showed interviews with movie visitors there - and the answers show that most people seem to take it's narration as a documentary fact and say it displays how reality really is.

Well, hate propaganda.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Skybird

It did start indeed. The ban has been changed into an age 18 movie. Some cinemas whom got offered the movie seem to voluntarily boycot it. It seems it also is shown on none of the major stages here, but in small niche cinemas only.

The scaring thing is that reports from Turkey that where on TV yesterday showed interviews with movie visitors there - and the answers show that most people seem to take it's narration as a documentary fact and say it displays how reality really is.

Well, hate propaganda.

Yes,it sucks....

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Vendor

The film, Valley of the Wolves: Palestine, opens this weekend. It has already stirred controversy for its simplistic portrayal of Israelis as brutal oppressors of the Palestinians.
.....
The movie's opening in Germany, which has a large Turkish community, was delayed by a day while the official film regulator considered how to rate it. Some German politicians have condemned it as anti-Semitic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12306796

mostly accurate, but there is no "official film regulator" here, lol. Films get rated by the industry themselves, comparing to the mpaa in the US. Their age ratings however are mostly legal binding .

Originally Posted by Skybird

Does it!? Last thing I learned about it was that it was officially banned over charges of racism and inflammatory hate propaganda. I mentioned this in one posting here or in another thread.

When you describe something, make it accurate and not look like films gets banned by a snip of the finger in Germany. I dont know what your sources are, but a ban of the film was not in stated anywhere. The whole thing revolved around the question if the film gets a rating from the german movie rating organization FSK or not.
Please check out the difference between rated 18, not rated, indexed (indiziert), and confiscated (beschlagnahmt). You'll find a good overwiew here: http://www.medienzensur.de/
What you descibe as banned would mean that a movie is violating german laws, and would eventually be forbidden. This means in reality that the movie must not be shown in public, nor that its' distribution is allowed. The posession is still legal, even in the case of being banned.
When a film is not rated, or put on index, it is still possible to watch him in cinema, however no minors and no advertisement would be allowed.

Originally Posted by Skybird

It did start indeed. The ban has been changed into an age 18 movie.

There was no ****ing ban! How can it change then?
I am very sensitive when it comes to censorship issues, that's why I think it's impoprtant to go with the facts.
And I find it rather odd that the same people who cry "suppression of speech", when it comes to their own opinion are the same people who demand censorship when it comes to other voices... They want the same laws, which are used against them, to use against opposing views.

[Skybird]

Penguin,

FYI, I took the info on that ban from one of the major German newspapers, though I cannot tell you exactly which one it was. I do a daily scan of the headlines, and if interested the according articles, of Die Welt, FAZ, Tagesspiegel, Focus, Der Spiegel, Die Zeit, Westfälische Nachrichten, Frankfurter Rundschau and occasionally some others, plus a dozen international ones, also some spwecialised sites and blogs and political magazines and economic sites. From any of these German ones the news was coming. It apparently was a mislead news message, okay. I cannot change that, nor am I responsible for it having been wrong. It was not the first time and it will not have been the last time the news said something wrong (and I still cannot say for sure that the ban was not considered in the beginning, and then given up: here in Münster for example one cinema was told to withdraw the movie from its' planned previews: and it did, but the director refused to also take off the posters in the windows, already assuming that the order was in doubt, obviously, this little sidestory I have read in the Westfälische Nachrichten for sure, some days after the news on the ban in the same or any other German paper).

If all this is a problem for you, well, so be it. I just referred to news as was available when I did.

BTW, there are some movies that are not only banned from display and distribution while being legal to own, but that you also may not legally own at all in Germany. The movie "Jud Süss" that I referred to, is such a movie. Such movies are banned not by the Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle, but by authorities ranking higher. The FSK is just a consumer "protection" censorship, no guard to protect criminal laws and constitutional rules.

They want the same laws, which are used against them, to use against opposing views.

Thats an issue another poster brings up quite often in relation to Skys posts, roughly ...."you appear to be the very thing which you warn us we must stop"

[Penguin]

The only major newspaper which wrote about a ban was "Die Welt" on January the 25th. http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/a...tscheiden.html
They quoted the turkish broadcaster NTV who claimed that the film was forbidden. From a german journalist I expect to know his stuff when they write about german laws and do not utter stuff or quote claims without checking out the facts. The turkish NTV journalist obviously was thinking about their own, draconic censorship laws when they fabricated their bs. However this says much the work ethos of both "journalists"
"Die Welt" from the next day stated a more correct version about the film rating: http://www.welt.de/print/welt_kompak...-ins-Kino.html - nothing about a ban to read there

Given the fact that we have an international community reading the stuff here, I want correct facts about bans and censorship in Deutschland. Note: I do not say that I approve the film, I share the opinion that it is a dumb flic. It's like learning about Viet Nam from Rambo 2. But I do not believe in forbidding films. The people who will be influenced by it are too stupid to understand any facts about the conflict anyway.

xxxx censorxxxx

and I still cannot say for sure that the ban was not considered in the beginning, and then given up: here in Münster for example one cinema was told to withdraw the movie from its' planned previews: and it did, but the director refused to also take off the posters in the windows, already assuming that the order was in doubt, obviously, this little sidestory I have read in the Westfälische Nachrichten for sure, some days after the news on the ban in the same or any other German paper

So that translates as the film wasn't banned but was delayed as it was submitted too late for the review, the previews in cinemas were not shown as they had the old planned release date and the posters remained as they advertised the film but not the old planned release date.

Thats quite a convoluted way skybird went through with some dodgy claims in what was basicly a small story about a even crappier film version of a crap TV show.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Skybird

BTW, there are some movies that are not only banned from display and distribution while being legal to own, but that you also may not legally own at all in Germany. The movie "Jud Süss" that I referred to, is such a movie. Such movies are banned not by the Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle, but by authorities ranking higher. The FSK is just a consumer "protection" censorship, no guard to protect criminal laws and constitutional rules.

good that I am not on you iggy-list , i enjoy an open exchange of opinions!

The film "Jud Süß" is not illegal to posess. It was forbidden by the allies after the war however, but this is obsolete since the reunification. I do not know about the legal status of posession of the movie pre 1990. What didn't change is the fact that it is not allowed to show it in public without a kind of historic information/education about it. By this it allowed to show it in education facilities for example.
At my work we have lots of forbidden movies in our archives, and we have also broadcasted some pics of them. However we used these images to mock the Nazis, so another law applied in this case (freedom of art & satire). No law suit has stopped our practice till now *knocking on wood*
You are right about the FSK as a consumer/youth protection organisation, but when a movie gets a rating, it cannot be forbidden afterwards. Films with no ratings can be put on the index/banned however. In this case freedom of speech laws get overturned by other laws, for example hate speech laws.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I reckon the only way the EU would be dismantled now would be as a consequence of a war between member states/nations and nobody in their right mind should want to see that happen.

Another possibility might be as a result of member states/nations leaving one by one because of the affordability issues economically and monetary but I should imagine bail outs will become much more common practice in the future.

Where's Napoleon when you need him?