Now this is too much !

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hmm, i wonder which ships were sunk then ? Compared to all ships heading to or from England convoys were the exception as far as i read, in 1939 and the first half of 1940 ?
You may be right, but in most of the accounts that have been published the few convoys that were, were scarcely defended, if at all.

I can't speak to who the u-boats attacked. I only know my research into the convoys. You can find out how many convoys and what ships were involved on any day of the war here:
http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/index.html (click on 'Convoy Finder')

On October 1, 1939 there were 15 convoys at sea. Eleven of them were cross-channel convoys; the other four were from/to Halifax or Capetown. The Halifax convoy (HX.3) was escorted by a light cruiser and two Canadian destroyers. That's not much, so even a single u-boat would have a decent chance of bagging a merchant or two.

Even worse, the so-called convoy out of Jamaica was three merchants with no escort.

What I find interesting, and unexplained, is the fact that the Channel convoy leaving Loire for Bristol on the 1st had no escort, while the one the very next day had five!

You're right - there were a lot of single ships at sea, but every day saw a large convoy and a bunch of smaller ones somewhere.

[Catfish]

Hello,

thanks for the links and information, SailorSteve the convoy page link is really a phantastic resource. You wrote
" ... You're right - there were a lot of single ships at sea, but every day saw a large convoy and a bunch of smaller ones somewhere ..."
Well, Germany somehow lost the war - and it was decided at sea, with all kind of resources getting to England despite the odds.

To CCIP - i agree later in the war, but initially few destroyers were doing convoy service or so it seems. Anyway their numbers were too scarce to protect all merchant shipping around the british isles - the 40 (?) aging US destroyers received through the lend and lease agreement were requested for a reason.

The boats would then try to attack before the destroyers met them for the last miles to escort them through the western approaches, or along the northern route.
Later in the war, but long before Hitler declared war to the US, the US destroyers had accompanied convoys to mid-atlantic, and then let them go from there, then shielded by british destroyers - at the "Momp" (mid-ocean meeting point). Some destroyers just steamed on and helped their british friends in detecting U-boats, sometimes even dephth charging them, without war declaration.
The US had just extended their territorial waters to the mid-atlantic, to make any attack on "their" western side a reason for entering the war - something Hitler tried to avoid at all costs. But this took some time and it was not done until 1942 or so i think.


To TDW and BilgeRat:

There seem to be different generations of sensors built-into SH5, but i have no idea whether and how they work correct - or if at the right time - or if at all.
This is a very good site for ASDIC information:
http://jproc.ca/sari/index.html

I know it is usually doubtable to quote the internet, however this is exactly what i read in german books (and i am very thankful i do not have to translate all that, already at 50+ pages english text about Zeppelin attacks to translate) ..

From this site:
" ... To say that convoys were well protected by Asdic would be an understatement especially in the early years of the war. Typically, a convoy consisting of 30 to 50 merchant ships created a perimeter distance of 16 to 18 miles. In theory, the escorts were positioned so that their Asdic beams overlapped, providing unbroken coverage of the convoy perimeter. The reality of the situation was different. An escort group usually consisted of one destroyer and three of four corvettes, barely enough to provide proper coverage especially with Asdic whose range limits averaged around 2000 yards under normal conditions. When convoys did have sufficient escorts, not all the Asdic sets were used simultaneously. ..."

I have no idea how to use the information in SH5, or if it is possible at all - would sure be a hell of a task.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Catfish

It is 1939, Western approaches.

A convoy of one battleship (!), 10 destroyers, and appx. 12 merchant ships is heading toward England.

- I was 8000 meters ahead of the convoy at night in rain and fog. They saw me.
Next try:
- I am at 10000 meters and dive, let the convoy go on above me. They find me at 160 meters depth, engines stopped, silent running.
- Next time i got in surfaced, the battleship destroyed me at some 8000 meters with no visibility (night, fog, whatever).
- Next time i got in submerged, sunk the battleship and two freighters.
Am down at 160 meters, some damage. At last 10 destroyers above me hours later, circling around my exact position, dropping charges and charges and charges. Not every charge hits but those which are most distant do the most damage. Each destroyer must have 100 dephth charges at least, i have stopped counting.
Does anyone notice that the modders try to fix the same things again and again ?

Guys this is ridiculous.

1. No battleship would escort a convoy in 1939, ok maybe they just tried that out ?
2. Not much convoys in 1939, not yet.
3. England did not have enough destroyers, anyone remembers the lend and lease thing with the US ? 40 old 4-stackers because England had not enough destroyers before 1942 ? Initially those had no ASDIC and most not even Radar. Now in 1939 we have 10 radar- and ASDIC equipped full-blown destroyers for one convoy, from late Fletcher class to whatnot in 1939, with well-experienced crews from 1945, or maybe much later.

Not to forget that the type VIIa is obviously not able to dive below 150 meters without taking hull damage.

I could list another hundred details that do not fit, from one screw not turning whan charging the batteries to all that other B$ that resides in the Silent Hunter series from SH3 on. Why the hell did they not improve the sim by also making it a bit more historically correct ? This has all been mentioned a thousand times ! Here, at UBIsoft forums and in numerous other simulation forums.

There's nothing more frustrating than such concocted history.
Sorry for the rant, but i am really disappointed; first you see a promising sim, and then that.

Doenitz would have resigned in september 1939, under those conditions.

Well, rant over,
Catfish

sounds like the sh2 ai?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

sounds like the sh2 ai?

I wonder if you can 'cloak' by having your rudder go hard to port, hard to starboard and then midships.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

sounds like the sh2 ai?

Don't forget Catfish is not playing with the mild watered down stock AI, but with TDW's IRAI mod, which in its unadulterated form can be like "Bungo Pete" reincarnated..

[Catfish]

Small heads up.

Was just sunk by a hunter group consisting of 6 destroyers and one light cruiser accompanying 1 (one) Cimarron tanker, in october 1939.
At 160 meters, running silent with 50 revolutions/minute and the crew put to rest.

The first two depth charges hit at my exact depth, at the exact point, one meter left and right of the conning tower
(Had i survived i had told Donuts he can put his U-boats were the sun don't shine; the british defence is invincible )

Have to find out where to lower the AI settings .. maybe there is a setting for zero, or maybe -1.

Greetings,
Catfish

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Small heads up.

Was just sunk by a hunter group consisting of 6 destroyers and one light cruiser accompanying 1 (one) Cimarron tanker, in october 1939.
At 160 meters, running silent with 50 revolutions/minute and the crew put to rest.

The first two depth charges hit at my exact depth, at the exact point, one meter left and right of the conning tower
(Had i survived i had told Donuts he can put his U-boats were the sun don't shine; the british defence is invincible )

Have to find out where to lower the AI settings .. maybe there is a setting for zero, or maybe -1.

Greetings,
Catfish

Read here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...171973&page=69

NOTE: is this mod perfect? NO WAY. It will continue to evolve as I learn more about the files and the game itself. Does the mod contain any bugs or errors? I hope not but to say it doesn't would be foolish. I will address errors/bugs as users find them and post them in my AIs thread.

NOTE: this mod can be customized by editing the \data\Scripts\AI\init.AIX. I went to great lengths to make it user customizable and for testing different setups/configurations (testing)

Although it is setup for the complete beginner to use the AI difficulty might be too much for the beginner. You can adjust the AI difficulty by editing the following file \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix. Find the following section:

###################### Difficulty parameters ####################
# Note: difficulty is in range 0.0 - 1.0 with 0.0 being no difficulty (sensor doesn't exist)
# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;

# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

Difficulty is from 0.0 to 1.0 with 1.0 meaning 100% difficulty. I recommend adjusting only the highlighted values. If you are a beginner I would recommend values of 0.8-0.85 for those highlighted. If you are an intermediate I would recommend 0.85-0.9 for those values. If you are an expert I would recommend 0.9-1.0 for those values.

[kiwi_2005]

I had the same thing happen with my first patrol up against the carrier taskforce, sunk the carrier but couldn't escape escorts knew exactly where I was, silent running, depth charges! Dead. Tried 3 times before just giving up. I had IRAI mod enable now I just run Ui boat /open Horizon & Environment 5 mods and can now get away from escorts, mostly.

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

I had the same thing happen with my first patrol up against the carrier taskforce, sunk the carrier but couldn't escape escorts knew exactly where I was, silent running, depth charges! Dead. Tried 3 times before just giving up. I had IRAI mod enable now I just run Ui boat /open Horizon & Environment 5 mods and can now get away from escorts, mostly.

If you change the setings in IRAI mod before activated you will have a lot more fun (runing with IRA enabled - in my opinion):

1. Go in IRA mod and open init.AIX (\data\Scripts\AI\init.AIX)

2. You wil have inside:

VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;


3. Change with:

VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 0.8;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 0.8;

(this TDW recomanded for ,,beginers,,)

4. Save

5. Enable the IRA mod


After that you can escape easyest for DDs.

If is still to ,,hard,, for you to play you can changes the 2 yellow lines (HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 0.8; and SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 0.8 with smallers values between 0.0 and 1.0

I also recomand to have the mod ,,AirTorpedoes,, installed after IRAI mod.

I tested almost all the mods from the forum. Belive me, you must to have these 2 mods installed!

[Catfish]

Hello,
hey many thanks, i did not even expect an answer for my rant lol
Now i do not even have to search for the location ..
Will change this and see

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hello,
hey many thanks, i did not even expect an answer for my rant lol
Now i do not even have to search for the location ..
Will change this and see

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

You wellcome mate!

[Bilge_Rat]

I have been checking out TDW's IRAI mod. From what I can see, the range of the passive/active sonar does not appear to differ greatly from stock. The big change is in the search and attack behavior and the length of time the escorts will keep searching for you after they lose contact.

The standard evasion tactic of going as deep as you can and using "silent running" to slowly crawl out of the area should still be the most effective. When you are deep, the escort's passive/active sonar cone is very small, so the escort would have to be practically on top of you to pick you up.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

"I have been checking out TDW's IRAI mod. From what I can see, the range of the passive/active sonar does not appear to differ greatly from stock. The big change is in the search and attack behavior and the length of time the escorts will keep searching for you after they lose contact. ..."

Ahaa, ok - so it looks as if they have more patience and will show some ambition with that change - works very well i have to say ..

... The standard evasion tactic of going as deep as you can and using "silent running" to slowly crawl out of the area should still be the most effective. When you are deep, the escort's passive/active sonar cone is very small, so the escort would have to be practically on top of you to pick you up."

Yeah, right. This is a destroyer exactly above me (i am close to the ocean bottom, running silent with some 0.7 knots or 50 revs at 160 meters), and when he throws the depth charges in a few seconde, two of them will explode left and right of my conning tower. It is a bit dark, but you see that he is right above me - would be the same at PD, or at 50 meters. They never fail, and this is his first run:






Greetings,
Catfish

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Yeah, right. This is a destroyer exactly above me (i am close to the ocean bottom, running silent with some 0.7 knots or 50 revs at 160 meters), and when he throws the depth charges in a few seconde, two of them will explode left and right of my conning tower. It is a bit dark, but you see that he is right above me - would be the same at PD, or at 50 meters. They never fail, and this is his first run:

TDW may have made them too good..

[Catfish]

"TDW may have made them too good.. "

I tend to agree

But it still is a lot of fun, even if i will change the AI settings in harbour before my 3rd patrol.
I have exterior view set to onj for the gorgeous graphics, but i wonder why the red mark is not removed automatically, with TDW's mod. It is good for testing though ...

Greetings,
Catfish