Russian Defense Minister Causes Uproar With Call to Replace Famed AK-47

Gerald · 01-21-11, 11:32 PM

Russia's Defense Minister, Anatoly Serdyukov, set off a firestorm of debate in Russia after saying that his military's pride and joy, the Kalashnikov and Dragunov SVDs sniper rifles, are "morally outdated" and that he's considering a plan to buy foreign-made small arms.

The comments were made during a private meeting with members of the lower house of Russia’s parliament just before the New Year, according to Russian media accounts. Serdyukov introduced the plan to buy foreign-made guns as part of larger military reforms that include buying French-made Mistrall Class helicopter carriers for the Russian navy.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...lace-famed-ak/

Note: Published January 21, 2011

Kaye T. Bai · 01-22-11, 12:50 AM

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The AK family of assault rifles and its derivatives are fine weapons.

CCIP · 01-22-11, 12:52 AM

Well this is sure to end well

...if it ain't broke...

ETR3(SS) · 01-22-11, 01:35 AM

Quote:

...morally outdated...

The Browning M2 .50 cal has been around since WW2 and the US still uses it. Why? Because some things are too damn good to replace. Like the AK and its derivatives.

Kaye T. Bai · 01-22-11, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

The Browning M2 .50 cal has been around since WW2 and the US still uses it. Why? Because some things are too damn good to replace. Like the AK and its derivatives.

Long live the M2HB!

And the .50 BMG.

Castout · 01-22-11, 04:42 AM

Quit the sentimental feeling on the AK-47. Russians need a new more accurate assault rifle so their troops can engage the enemy from greater distance more effectively imo. It would really make a big difference in battle having a more accurate weapon and better optics.

AK-47 spread is quite bad at longer ranges. Sure if you would want to kill an elephant from 400 m maybe it's great but not when you're trying to get a man firing from behind the window from 600 m. But to be honest my only experience with the AK-47 is in game

. AK-47 always manages to drive me nuts in ArmA 2 as I tend to open fire from longer ranges. I could see the bullets hitting everything else but the target.

. Going semi too!

Kaye T. Bai · 01-22-11, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

AK-47 spread is quite bad at longer ranges. Sure if you would want to kill an elephant from 400 m maybe it's great but not when you're trying to get a man firing from behind the window from 600 m. But to be honest my only experience with the AK-47 is in game

. AK-47 always manages to drive me nuts in ArmA 2 as I tend to open fire from longer ranges. I could see the bullets hitting everything else but the target.

ArmA 2 is to ground combat was Harpoon is to naval warfare.

MH · 01-22-11, 05:03 AM

I dont know about new variants of ak 47 but as far as remember using any type of optical equipment and keeping it zeroed in difficult conditions was very cumbersome,
With iron sights the m16 is still much more acurate while ak 47 require almost no maintence and will shoot no matter what.

XabbaRus · 01-22-11, 06:03 AM

But the Russians have much improved variants of the AK47 and newer sniper rifles too...

I reckon this is grandstanding to give the defense industries a scare.

Skybird · 01-22-11, 06:18 AM

Want to shoot a man at 600m (!) with just an assault rifle? Good luck with that.

The reliability of the AK47 is legendary. It is said you can give it no maintenance for a month, put into water, roll it in sand and let it dry in the sun - and it still fires then. Such reliability is an argument one should not underestimate - even more so for an army that maybe will need to fight in a logistics environment not as advanced as the American one.

I read that latest models of the AK-47 have much improved precision.

Anyhow, the idea that Russians frequently buy weapons, equipment and military platforms in the West now is something I am still not fully used to.

Tell Brezhnev back then that this would happen 30 years in the future. He probably would threaten that after his death he would not stop turning in his grave.

MH · 01-22-11, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Want to shoot a man at 600m (!) with just an assault rifle? Good luck with that.

The reliability of the AK47 is legendary. It is said you can give it no maintenance for a month, put into water, roll it in sand and let it dry in the sun - and it still fires then. Such reliability is an argument one should not underestimate - even more so for an army that maybe will need to fight in a logistics environment not as advanced as the American one.

I read that latest models of the AK-47 have much improved precision.

Anyhow, the idea that Russians frequently buy weapons, equipment and military platforms in the West now is something I am still not fully used to.

Tell Brezhnev back then that this would happen 30 years in the future. He probably would threaten that after his death he would not stop turning in his grave.

todays modern common foot soldier is thought about accurate shooting more than you think.
The times of spray and pray are long over.

CCIP · 01-22-11, 12:37 PM

But the real question is... do assault rifles really need that accuracy and killing power at longer ranges? I think the opposite has consistently been shown to be true. That's why militaries in the last few decades have tended towards smaller-caliber, lighter weapons that are easier to fire under crucial close combat conditions. Most of the work done by these "assault rifles" and carbines is still at well under 100m. For everything else, there's specialized weapons - machineguns and sniper rifles and such.

I think it's easy to think up scenarios and theorize about where the AK might fail, but honestly, when what is really needed is a reliable weapon that will put a lot of lead into a target at close-to-medium range, I don't think you can do much better than the AK.

Raptor1 · 01-22-11, 12:42 PM

Oh? I thought the AK-47 and AKM were long withdrawn from front line service in Russia and replaced by modern versions of the AK-74...

CCIP · 01-22-11, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Oh? I thought the AK-47 and AKM were long withdrawn from front line service in Russia and replaced by modern versions of the AK-74...

I'm pretty sure he's referring to AK weapons in general. AK-74 and its versions are, at their core, still follow the same basic design.

Raptor1 · 01-22-11, 12:53 PM

Oh, I see. Though the AK-74 is supposed to be much more accurate than the AK-47 and AKM.

01-21-11, 11:32 PM	#1
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Russian Defense Minister Causes Uproar With Call to Replace Famed AK-47 Russia's Defense Minister, Anatoly Serdyukov, set off a firestorm of debate in Russia after saying that his military's pride and joy, the Kalashnikov and Dragunov SVDs sniper rifles, are "morally outdated" and that he's considering a plan to buy foreign-made small arms. The comments were made during a private meeting with members of the lower house of Russia’s parliament just before the New Year, according to Russian media accounts. Serdyukov introduced the plan to buy foreign-made guns as part of larger military reforms that include buying French-made Mistrall Class helicopter carriers for the Russian navy. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...lace-famed-ak/ Note: Published January 21, 2011 __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

01-22-11, 12:52 AM	#3
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Well this is sure to end well ...if it ain't broke... __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

01-22-11, 04:42 AM	#6
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Quit the sentimental feeling on the AK-47. Russians need a new more accurate assault rifle so their troops can engage the enemy from greater distance more effectively imo. It would really make a big difference in battle having a more accurate weapon and better optics. AK-47 spread is quite bad at longer ranges. Sure if you would want to kill an elephant from 400 m maybe it's great but not when you're trying to get a man firing from behind the window from 600 m. But to be honest my only experience with the AK-47 is in game . AK-47 always manages to drive me nuts in ArmA 2 as I tend to open fire from longer ranges. I could see the bullets hitting everything else but the target. . Going semi too! __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

01-22-11, 06:03 AM	#9
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	But the Russians have much improved variants of the AK47 and newer sniper rifles too... I reckon this is grandstanding to give the defense industries a scare. __________________

01-22-11, 06:18 AM	#10
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,604 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Want to shoot a man at 600m (!) with just an assault rifle? Good luck with that. The reliability of the AK47 is legendary. It is said you can give it no maintenance for a month, put into water, roll it in sand and let it dry in the sun - and it still fires then. Such reliability is an argument one should not underestimate - even more so for an army that maybe will need to fight in a logistics environment not as advanced as the American one. I read that latest models of the AK-47 have much improved precision. Anyhow, the idea that Russians frequently buy weapons, equipment and military platforms in the West now is something I am still not fully used to. Tell Brezhnev back then that this would happen 30 years in the future. He probably would threaten that after his death he would not stop turning in his grave. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-22-11, 12:50 AM	#2
Kaye T. Bai Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Western Hemisphere, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster Posts: 585 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The AK family of assault rifles and its derivatives are fine weapons.

01-22-11, 05:03 AM	#8
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	I dont know about new variants of ak 47 but as far as remember using any type of optical equipment and keeping it zeroed in difficult conditions was very cumbersome, With iron sights the m16 is still much more acurate while ak 47 require almost no maintence and will shoot no matter what.

01-22-11, 12:37 PM	#12
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	But the real question is... do assault rifles really need that accuracy and killing power at longer ranges? I think the opposite has consistently been shown to be true. That's why militaries in the last few decades have tended towards smaller-caliber, lighter weapons that are easier to fire under crucial close combat conditions. Most of the work done by these "assault rifles" and carbines is still at well under 100m. For everything else, there's specialized weapons - machineguns and sniper rifles and such. I think it's easy to think up scenarios and theorize about where the AK might fail, but honestly, when what is really needed is a reliable weapon that will put a lot of lead into a target at close-to-medium range, I don't think you can do much better than the AK. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

01-22-11, 12:42 PM	#13
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Oh? I thought the AK-47 and AKM were long withdrawn from front line service in Russia and replaced by modern versions of the AK-74... __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory

01-22-11, 12:53 PM	#15
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Oh, I see. Though the AK-74 is supposed to be much more accurate than the AK-47 and AKM. __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory