North and South Korea are at it again - Page 2

Oberon · 11-23-10, 10:25 AM

Bring back, eh?

Nice little slip there.

Castout · 11-23-10, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

I read that the South Korean defense minister is in talks with the US to bring back tactical nukes to the Korean Peninsula.

That talk already began before the shelling attack.

gimpy117 · 11-23-10, 03:31 PM

If things don't change fast i think war is coming.

and im 19 im elliagable for the draft...

CCIP · 11-23-10, 03:38 PM

I still wonder what the North's game is this time. They can't honestly think that war would be to their advantage now, can they? They have no chance whatsoever to survive as a regime, unless they can reliably count on China to bail them out or at least back them up when push comes to shove. And honestly, I just can't see China stepping in to defend them in the current climate. NK is really not worth much to them now in the big scope of things.

So what's the game? What do they know that we don't when they end up with an incident that is not only politically oh-so-close to all out war, but LOOKS like real war in Korea, complete with smoking buildings and explosions in civilian areas of the South? I honestly don't believe that the DPRK leaders are as crazy as some would like them to think.

Gorduz · 11-23-10, 04:16 PM

What would it take to get China involved in a war on the south korean side. And a bit more scary on a north korean side.

Takeda Shingen · 11-23-10, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

I still wonder what the North's game is this time. They can't honestly think that war would be to their advantage now, can they? They have no chance whatsoever to survive as a regime, unless they can reliably count on China to bail them out or at least back them up when push comes to shove. And honestly, I just can't see China stepping in to defend them in the current climate. NK is really not worth much to them now in the big scope of things.

So what's the game? What do they know that we don't when they end up with an incident that is not only politically oh-so-close to all out war, but LOOKS like real war in Korea, complete with smoking buildings and explosions in civilian areas of the South? I honestly don't believe that the DPRK leaders are as crazy as some would like them to think.

Ultimately, I think that North Korea's game can be summed up as smack-talk with guns. They want to make it look like they want a war without actually wanting to go to war. 'We're big, we're tough, we're not afraid of you, respect us' is the message. It's a ridiculous message to send, but stupidity has never stopped them before.

Castout · 11-23-10, 04:30 PM

It's not stupidity it's taking calculated risk on the presumption that the South is not so eager to retaliate in full scale war and the fact that US economy and military are under strain hence the hesitancy to commit a new war to support her allies.

South Korea reacted weakly to the Cheonan sinking and they knew it was a clear message that the South would not risk war even to their small detriment hence this small island target. And if the South kept its usual way of reacting which is mainly media wars and stern bluffing the North will exploit this further betting that the South being so reluctant to commit to war when US is under strain economically and militarily.

One thing we need to appreciate of the North leadership is that they are not the type of cowardly bullies that some other nation leaders are. They struck at their strong enemy. To me that needs to be commended. And in all cases it's them who hold the initiative prompting the South to be reactionary all the time and making South Korea leadership and the west to appear weak and stupid. Why this is so is because while the South is trying to merely maintain her strong economy the North is fighting for her survival.

Ducimus · 11-23-10, 04:56 PM

From what i read, the shelling ranges from 100 rounds to 200 rounds of artillery fire. That is significant. The DPRK wrote the book on brinkmanship. They're really pushing the envelope this time. I do wonder what their game is this time, but that said, this time, I think the possibility of the the cease fire ending, has never been greater. (except maybe the tree incident)

Ducimus · 11-23-10, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy117

If things don't change fast i think war is coming.

and im 19 im elliagable for the draft...

That'll never happen. Our politicians are too spineless to make decisions and are only concerned about being re elected. Enacting the draft will end their re election possiblities.

What will happen, is the armed force in general will implent (again), the stop-loss program, activate more reserve units, and tap into the IRR again.

(edit: FYI, if you sign up for 4 years active duty, your contract obligation is really for 8 years. The 4 inactive years are spent as IRR. You go back to civilian life, but can be called upon if the crap hits the fan. In which case... back in uniform you go! You weren't issued a civilian job or wife after all! )

War or no war, you have nothing to worry about.

nikimcbee · 11-23-10, 05:06 PM

@Duc,
I'm interested in your insite regarding all of this, as you mentioned you served in Korea.

Ducimus · 11-23-10, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

@Duc,
I'm interested in your insite regarding all of this, as you mentioned you served in Korea.

Honestly, i tend to have a grunts eye view of things. Particuarly in things like politics or international relations. I can tell you what living South korea is like. I can tell you how much their dug in and how well prepared they are. I can tell you the korea's have been playing "reindeer games" and "tit for tat" for a long time.. to ridiculous levels. But if your looking for a poltiical analysis of the current situation, my thoughts are no better then anyone elses.

the_tyrant · 11-23-10, 05:13 PM

since this is bound to appear anyways:
even north korea knows that Obama is weak.

the us government is currently in a poor state to react anyways
and the south korean forces could not expect to beat north korea in an all out war.
Therefore, Kim Jiong Il could use the opportunity to provoke the south to gain political leverage. It would be harder for North Korea to do this when there is a firmer pro-military US administration

Also, there is a rumor that Kim Jiong il is dead or is currently about to die.

CCIP · 11-23-10, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

From what i read, the shelling ranges from 100 rounds to 200 rounds of artillery fire.

Yeah, the BBC is reporting 50 hits on the island and 80 shells fired by the ROK in return. Initially, from what I read, shells coming from the North also landed in the water (now, makes you wonder - is their aim really that bad, or may they have been shooting at something there?). So that's indeed a rather large number.

Raptor1 · 11-23-10, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

and the south korean forces could not expect to beat north korea in an all out war.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, especially if it's the DPRK that is on the offensive.

the_tyrant · 11-23-10, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Yeah, the BBC is reporting 50 hits on the island and 80 shells fired by the ROK in return. Initially, from what I read, shells coming from the North also landed in the water (now, makes you wonder - is their aim really that bad, or may they have been shooting at something there?). So that's indeed a rather large number.

They are shooting with 50s equipment that hasn't been well maintained for too long. So i guess its acceptable, since North Korea is aiming at targets near water

11-23-10, 03:31 PM	#18
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	If things don't change fast i think war is coming. and im 19 im elliagable for the draft... __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army

11-23-10, 03:38 PM	#19
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I still wonder what the North's game is this time. They can't honestly think that war would be to their advantage now, can they? They have no chance whatsoever to survive as a regime, unless they can reliably count on China to bail them out or at least back them up when push comes to shove. And honestly, I just can't see China stepping in to defend them in the current climate. NK is really not worth much to them now in the big scope of things. So what's the game? What do they know that we don't when they end up with an incident that is not only politically oh-so-close to all out war, but LOOKS like real war in Korea, complete with smoking buildings and explosions in civilian areas of the South? I honestly don't believe that the DPRK leaders are as crazy as some would like them to think. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

11-23-10, 04:16 PM	#20
Gorduz Engineer Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Norway Posts: 210 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	What would it take to get China involved in a war on the south korean side. And a bit more scary on a north korean side. __________________ 21. MTB skv. Attacks without warning.

11-23-10, 04:30 PM	#22
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	It's not stupidity it's taking calculated risk on the presumption that the South is not so eager to retaliate in full scale war and the fact that US economy and military are under strain hence the hesitancy to commit a new war to support her allies. South Korea reacted weakly to the Cheonan sinking and they knew it was a clear message that the South would not risk war even to their small detriment hence this small island target. And if the South kept its usual way of reacting which is mainly media wars and stern bluffing the North will exploit this further betting that the South being so reluctant to commit to war when US is under strain economically and militarily. One thing we need to appreciate of the North leadership is that they are not the type of cowardly bullies that some other nation leaders are. They struck at their strong enemy. To me that needs to be commended. And in all cases it's them who hold the initiative prompting the South to be reactionary all the time and making South Korea leadership and the west to appear weak and stupid. Why this is so is because while the South is trying to merely maintain her strong economy the North is fighting for her survival. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

11-23-10, 05:06 PM	#25
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	@Duc, I'm interested in your insite regarding all of this, as you mentioned you served in Korea. __________________

11-23-10, 10:25 AM	#16
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Bring back, eh? Nice little slip there.

11-23-10, 04:56 PM	#23
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	From what i read, the shelling ranges from 100 rounds to 200 rounds of artillery fire. That is significant. The DPRK wrote the book on brinkmanship. They're really pushing the envelope this time. I do wonder what their game is this time, but that said, this time, I think the possibility of the the cease fire ending, has never been greater. (except maybe the tree incident)

11-23-10, 05:13 PM	#27
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	since this is bound to appear anyways: even north korea knows that Obama is weak. the us government is currently in a poor state to react anyways and the south korean forces could not expect to beat north korea in an all out war. Therefore, Kim Jiong Il could use the opportunity to provoke the south to gain political leverage. It would be harder for North Korea to do this when there is a firmer pro-military US administration Also, there is a rumor that Kim Jiong il is dead or is currently about to die.