Religious Poll

[Penguin]

Not really a surprise to me:

1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Theravada Buddhism (93%)
3. Liberal Quakers - Religious Society of Friends (91%)
4. Unitarian Universalism (91%)
5. Non-theist (75%)
6. Taoism (70%)
7. Mainline - Liberal Christian Protestants (65%)
8. Mahayana Buddhism (61%)
9. Sikhism (55%)
10. Reform Judaism (49%)

Damn those secular humanists who overflow this forum!

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by ryanglavin

Thats how I perceive them.. They are more like very old and close friends to me, if that makes any sense. I talk to them, and they talk to me. But it is my firm belief that you can't really offend a god, because we are so minuscule to them that it wouldn't really make a difference.

I see "offending a god" entirely in metaphorical and psychological terms, where a person fails to give some archetypal force its proper due in some positive way (pushing it into the un- or subconscious and away from the ego) and, as a result, ends up being overwhelmed by the negative aspects of it.

For instance, a person could "offend" Aphrodite by convincing him/herself that only weak, needy people make fools of themselves over something as "inconsequential" as a romantic attachment. Love? Bah, humbug. Hallmark card nonsense, the ego says to itself. And Aphrodite says, O rly? Well, we'll just see about that. I will not be ignored by a mere mortal.

And so she sends Eros with his bow to put an arrow right smack into the heart of the offending disbeliever. Oh, hey, remember how you used to claim you were 'above' this kind of thing? Surprise! You're in love!

And suddenly the ego that never wanted to swim in that particular ocean, and which looked down on those who did, finds itself struggling just to keep from drowning in it.

From my own life, I can tell you that I "pay homage" to the gods of war by studying martial arts (and prolly by playing combat sims as well). The end result is that I'm a far more laid-back person than I used to be, far less likely to be suddenly overwhelmed by feelings of anger or aggressive, violent urges. I've found a way to honor those basic primal forces that integrates them into my life in a positive way, and so there's far less likelihood of that particular pot coming to an unexpected boil on a back burner I've convinced myself was never turned on.

Did they put away the pitchforks and torches yet?

Do not hide the glimmer of salvation or the means to stack gods bountiful reward to see us through the darkness of the devils winter
Shine the light on the tools of the industrious for salvation comes to those who keep the rick in dryness for therin shall remain the sustenance and fortification in dark times.

[ryanglavin]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

I see "offending a god" entirely in metaphorical and psychological terms, where a person fails to give some archetypal force its proper due in some positive way (pushing it into the un- or subconscious and away from the ego) and, as a result, ends up being overwhelmed by the negative aspects of it.

For instance, a person could "offend" Aphrodite by convincing him/herself that only weak, needy people make fools of themselves over something as "inconsequential" as a romantic attachment. Love? Bah, humbug. Hallmark card nonsense, the ego says to itself. And Aphrodite says, O rly? Well, we'll just see about that. I will not be ignored by a mere mortal.

And so she sends Eros with his bow to put an arrow right smack into the heart of the offending disbeliever. Oh, hey, remember how you used to claim you were 'above' this kind of thing? Surprise! You're in love!

And suddenly the ego that never wanted to swim in that particular ocean, and which looked down on those who did, finds itself struggling just to keep from drowning in it.

From my own life, I can tell you that I "pay homage" to the gods of war by studying martial arts (and prolly by playing combat sims as well). The end result is that I'm a far more laid-back person than I used to be, far less likely to be suddenly overwhelmed by feelings of anger or aggressive, violent urges. I've found a way to honor those basic primal forces that integrates them into my life in a positive way, and so there's far less likelihood of that particular pot coming to an unexpected boil on a back burner I've convinced myself was never turned on.

I also do the same as you, but I pay homage to all my gods. They like revenge, but they usually don't kill for it.
Edit: wait, what do you believe in frau?

[ryanglavin]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Uh... this is the General Topics forum. If we reduced it to gaming discussions it would barely exist.

Haha just imagine...
General topic gaming discussions...
What would you talk about?

Edit: wait, what do you believe in frau?

I think frau has belief of the silent and deep kind



Silent running .
Deep water.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by ryanglavin

Haha just imagine...
General topic gaming discussions...
What would you talk about?

I like games, in general.

[krashkart]

http://www.shatnerology.com/index.html

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by ryanglavin

I also do the same as you, but I pay homage to all my gods.

Never meant to imply that I didn't.

To me it is really all a matter of trying to be more conscious than less so, of recognizing that my self is far bigger than my ego, that nothing human is alien to it, and that to deny this is the worst form of hubris. Of not pushing into shadow and denying those possibilities and proclivities I would prefer not to acknowledge as part and parcel of who I could be or might have been, because I know all too well that the beast you befriend is a powerful ally, while the one you drive from your midst will someday return to burn your village.

wait, what do you believe in frau?

I think people believe what they need to believe, and I'm no different. In most cases the need is unconscious, because most of what we are and what motivates us is unconscious. What we don't know is always far greater than what we do know, and this includes what we know about ourselves.

For instance, IMO people believe in God or a god or gods or whatever, because something inside them requires the existence of whatever it is they believe in. And naturally they are attracted to whatever validates and supports that belief. Why do they need to believe it? I suppose everybody needs to believe in something, and "I'll have another cookie" isn't enough for everyone.

(I choose to believe in the Loch Ness Monster because it amuses me to do so. Why does it amuse me? Your guess is as good as mine. I suspect it's because a world where prehistoric aquatic critters are not still lurking about in Scotland would seem just a little less fun to live in.)

This is why I think it's so important not only to question what we believe, but WHY we believe it. If it is something we have not learned from our own experience, or have no empirical evidence for, why do we continue to believe it? What need does it fulfill, what behavior does it justify, what potential reality does it shield us from facing? If it is something that can be neither proved or disproved, why do we opt to believe or disbelieve, and based on what criteria?

There are many things which I see become issues of contention among others, in which I neither believe or disbelieve because to me it makes no difference one way or the other.

And there is a difference to believing and knowing. I do not "believe" that hot oil will burn if it splatters on my skin. I know that it will, because it has happened and I have experienced the results.

OTOH, someone else might say, I got hot oil on my skin and it didn't burn at all. Well, then what I know to be true for me is not true for them. Fair enough. But I will not pour hot oil on my hands based on their experience, nor will I pour hot oil on them to try and prove them wrong. If, however, they start going around pouring hot oil on other people, we are going to have a problem, no matter how much they try to justify it by saying that what is true for them must also be true for everybody else.

Have I had religious experiences? Absolutely, yes. Have I "seen" things that can only be seen with the heart, and never with the eyes? Oh yes. Were they hallucinations, or real? Well of course they were real. Even a hallucination is real. A dream is real. The experience of having one or the other is most definitely real. What matters to me is: did it produce anything of value? Am I happier, more content, more at peace with myself and others, more patient, less fearful? Oh yes.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

I think frau has belief of the silent and deep kind

I don't think I've found God, but I may have seen where gods come from. - Terry Pratchett

Silent running .
Deep water.

Well, it's definitely deep something.

[Ducimus]

Religion is a lot like a pair of shoes. Find one that fits you, and if it makes you feel great, that's fantastic. Just don't ask me to wear your shoes.

My 2 cents and a psuedo quote from one of my favorite comedians

[frau kaleun]

"You see how picky I am about my shoes, and they only go on my feet!"- Cher, Clueless

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by krashkart

http://www.shatnerology.com/index.html

[ryanglavin]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

"You see how picky I am about my shoes, and they only go on my feet!"- Cher, Clueless

Well I'm just quoting this one, because I don't want to quote the longer one, but, your pretty deep frau.
And I don't shove religion down anyones throat, because my religion isn't really accepted as "status quo", if you could say that. By my own estimates, I only expect at most 20,000 other people to even have similar beliefs of mine (Similar as in the greek gods)

[August]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

I got hot oil on my skin and it didn't burn at all. Well, then what I know to be true for me is not true for them. Fair enough. But I will not pour hot oil on my hands based on their experience, nor will I pour hot oil on them to try and prove them wrong. If, however, they start going around pouring hot oil on other people, we are going to have a problem, no matter how much they try to justify it by saying that what is true for them must also be true for everybody else.

I read this and just couldn't help thinking that there are people who would pay good money to see that...


I am so going to hell...

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by ryanglavin

Well I'm just quoting this one, because I don't want to quote the longer one, but, your pretty deep frau.
And I don't shove religion down anyones throat, because my religion isn't really accepted as "status quo", if you could say that. By my own estimates, I only expect at most 20,000 other people to even have similar beliefs of mine (Similar as in the greek gods)

I guess if I really thought about it, I'd have to say I have very few "beliefs." At least not in the context we're talking about. I have things that I know to be true, for myself, because of what I've experienced and I've seen the results. But even these are things I can't necessarily "prove" in any empirical sense, and that's okay. I work with what I've got at any given moment. The important thing is not to be so attached to it that I'm no longer open to anything different, or dependent on the unconditional agreement of others for validation of it.