[REL] 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit

[I'm goin' down]

I just read the new additions to the tutorial. I was doing things I thought made sense, but I was not using your techniques per his newly added poritons of the tutorial. He has shown me the way. It is still very complex, but I should master it in a few months. During that time, the Japs will build more ships for me to sink!

[I'm goin' down]

Correct version here.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

How far out are you?

It's not that far out. I'm able to plot the points, and draw a decent course for the target. Range I'm fine with. Having it be a little bit off long or short is fine. The bearing seems to be leading the target by about 3-4 degrees to clockwise most of the time, but I also end up with it going kind of wild either way once in a while. The targets have all been in rough water and at long range, so I'm probably not getting a good bearing on them.

My main problem is that I'm concentrating too much on the contact on the map. I need to turn it off so I can concentrate on my plot, instead of falling back on habit.

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Have a look at JCC's tutorial for those answers. At long range you don't need to be super accurate. You only need to be accurate enough to get into a good firing position.

I downloaded all the pictures from that tutorial so I can flip through them. Very nice stuff!

[Cpt.Kool]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

It might work with 1.4, I don't quite know. Try it and see what happens. In any case, getting the U-Boat add-on is sort of a must have, as it adds in a few things and the graphics are much better (1.4 is limitted to 1024x768 rescaled). Plus you get a whole U-Boat campaign too.

OK it won't work, there are files in the tex dir: Range Unit AO.tga, Range Unit Labels.tga and TDC_Dials.dds. They do not exist in 1.4. Game crashes.

So, now I have to go shopping! I was in a 100% career and badly missing just this!! Better graphics were not my problem but getting a better range for plotting was.

I hope I be back soon. Thanks for the welcome still.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by razark

The bearing seems to be leading the target by about 3-4 degrees to clockwise most of the time

If you can, always use optical bearings. It's 1000% easier to lock the scope and just use the radar for range. If you are tracking beyond visual range, then you need to measure radar bearing from the trailing edge of the radar beam, or in other words, sweep over the target then step back (mouse wheel) until you pick up the target again and that's the bearing the centre of the target is at.

Try these. I'd advise plotting with map contacts on if I were you, so you can see when you get it right. :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1952

That's four radar training misisons and one TDC training mission all accessible from the Submarine School off the main menu. Each mission has full instructions in the mission brief:

Radar Training Part One.

In this mission the player will learn to read bearings from the radar train bearing indicator and match them to the bearing observed through the periscope or TBT.

OBJECTIVE 1: Use PPI Scope.

Use the PPI indicator to take quick readings of target bearings, matching them to visual observation. A rough estimate can be obtained by tracing through the centre of the blip to take a bearing and compare it to a bearing taken through the TBT. Note that the PPI indicator's bearing reading is quite rough and becomes harder to read the closer to the centre of the scope targets are. Note the position the beam has to be in to take a range reading.

OBJECTIVE 2: Use the 'A' Scope.

Use the 'A' scope to take accurate bearing and range information for each target and match it to the bearing observed visually through the periscope or TBT. Note that the 'A' Scope will show a pip for a sweep of approximately 9 degrees (NB: This radar arc was 5 degrees in real life). The train bearing indicator is located above the 'A' scope and can be used to read of both relative and true bearings to target, though on this version, the true bearings are too small to be accuratrely read and also have not been calibrated. Note that the pip on the 'A' scope for each target stays illuminated over several degrees. Make a note of the bearing range your 'A' scope reading gives you and match that to the visual observations taken through the TBT and stadimeter, if you wish to compare.

The 'A' scope is set up in what is known as a 'lobed off' configuration. The energy from the radar beam is directed out to one side of the radar antenna. In the current configuration it is lobed off to the right of centre. This is so that the edge of the thin radar beam can be used to detect the bearing of a target, rather than trying to judge when the pip is highest using the blunt end of the beam. The edge is much more sensitive and will give a greater degree of pip height change.

To get an accurate reading of the relative bearing of a target, read the bearing from the back edge of the contact. To do this, sweep the beam clockwise over the pip and when it disappears, step backwards using the mouse wheel (move the mouse wheel towards you) until the pip re-appears on the 'A' Scope. Look at the radar train bearing indicator and read off the relative bearing.

End the mission when you are comfortable reading ranges and bearing of static ships.



Radar Training Part Two.

In this mission the player will read the bearings from the radar train bearing indicator and the range of three seperate targets. The player will then attempt to sink them.

OBJECTIVE 1: Take the bearing and range.

Sweep with the radar and use the PPI scope to get an awareness of the number and rough positioning of the targets. Select one and obtain the range and bearing of the target using the 'A' Scope.


OBJECTIVE 2: Sink the ship.

Once you have the information, enter the bearing using either the UZO, the periscope or the sonar station. Enter the range using the stadimeter (you will need to have enabled manual targetting for this to be an option. Move the stadimeter, or simply click on the dial to drag the indicator round. You have have trouble with higher ranges, so you may need to set the target's height and then use the stadimeter button to move the split prisms blind, until you have the correct range indicated. Once the correct data has been sent to the TDC, fire a spread of torpedoes.

If you missed, try again, if you hit, congratulations. You can either end the mission or try to sink another.


Radar Training Part Three.

Weather report: CLEAR.

There are three targets in varying orders of difficulty. Your aim is to track each (one per time the mission is attempted) and then sink it.

Use Radar range and observed bearings through periscope (or radar bearings) to plot the course of the three target vessels. The tanker to the NW is a slow moving target and will be following the same course each time this exercise is attempted. The tanker to the NE is moderately fast moving and will follow a slightly different course each time this exercise is attempted. The target to the south is suspicious of submarine activity and will be zig-zagging. This last target will be the most challenging. See if you can identify its zigs.


Radar Training Part Four.

Weather report: HEAVILY OVERCAST and FOG

This is a recreation of the previous exercise, except conducted in heavy fog, so the only tool you can use is the sonar and radar, with visual observations unavailable. The exercise however should be conducted using the radar only to obtain bearings and range.

There are three targets in varying orders of difficulty. Your aim is to track each (one per time the mission is attempted) and then sink it.

Use Radar range and observed bearings through periscope (or radar bearings) to plot the course of the three target vessels. The tanker to the NW is a slow moving target and will be following the same course each time this exercise is attempted. The tanker to the NE is moderately fast moving and will follow a slightly different course each time this exercise is attempted. The target to the south is suspicious of submarine activity and will be zig-zagging. This last target will be the most challenging. See if you can identify its zigs.

Advanced Training:

Not for the faint hearted. A good radar operator will be efficient in the tracking and reading of data from multiple bearings. Use your radar skills to track and plot each of the three targets and produce a plot for each one. For an added challenge, do this in real time, without pausing time.


TDC Training Part One.

Weather report: CLEAR with LOW WIND.

This is the first TDC training mission. You will be positioned NNE of your target, a large modern tanker, which is steaming on a course NNW at approximately 12,000 yards (6 miles). The tanker is on a course of 338 degrees at a speed of 10 knots.

Practice using the TDC, with the details given above. As you know the target's course, you do not need to worry about eyeballing or drawing on the chart to work out the target's AOB. Use the TDC's target course entry dial to enter the course of 338 (making sure the AOB dial is selected in the periscope) and send this to the TDC. Then enter the speed of 10 knots and send that to the TDC. Finally, use the periscope to lock onto the target and then use the radar to measure the range as accurately as you can (make sure you have the stadimeter selected in the periscope view). When you have the range, send the data to the TDC. Now with the TDC having a complete solution, you can start the PK and the TDC should keep track of where the target is. As you have entered accurate information, the TDC should 'track' with the target. Wait several minutes and take a new bearing measurement from the periscope and a new radar range measurement and use these actual measurements to compare to the TDC's generated position. If you entered the details correctly, the measured and generated details should match.

Manouver as needed to sink the target. If you update the target's bearing, make sure to check that the target's course is still showing as 338.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

If you can, always use optical bearings. It's 1000% easier to lock the scope and just use the radar for range.

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Optical bearing and radar range
The best combination will never change
Optical bearing and radar range
Then your plot shall never be strange.

I kept asking the crew, but they kept saying they couldn't see anything 14 miles out.

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

If you are tracking beyond visual range, then you need to measure radar bearing from the trailing edge of the radar beam, or in other words, sweep over the target then step back (mouse wheel) until you pick up the target again and that's the bearing the centre of the target is at.

Like I said, it was some heavy seas. The target kept appearing and disappearing, so it was hard to determine exactly when it was in or out of the beam. Probably not the best for testing this out.

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Try these. I'd advise plotting with map contacts on if I were you, so you can see when you get it right. :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1952

That's four radar training misisons and one TDC training mission all accessible from the Submarine School off the main menu. Each mission has full instructions in the mission brief:

Already downloaded them. Once I finish the patrol I'm on, I'll install them and give it a try.

[I'm goin' down]

I too was having problem getting bearing and range plots to measure accurately. Two tips. 10,000 yd. - 15,000 yd. range is much easier to plot than longer ranges. (The computer screen is just not big enough to handle the larger distances.) If you are ahead of the target, adjust to slow speed. This will provide you more time to take readings and plot before your crew spots the target visually, and your sub's speed will not foul up the range by traveling to far between the time you take range and bearing readings and plot them. This helped me.

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by Cpt.Kool

So, now I have to go shopping! I was in a 100% career and badly missing just this!! Better graphics were not my problem but getting a better range for plotting was.

I hope I be back soon. Thanks for the welcome still.

You can get the download edition for about $10 at: www.Direct2Drive.com

[I'm goin' down]

I downloaded the avi video. I get no sound. My sound is working, as I checked it. Any suggestions?

[John Channing]

There isn't any (I'm too shy).

Here is the Closed Captioned version...




- First go to the TBT Screen

- Then note that the AOB of the contact is at 0 degrees

- Go to the TDC Screen (I go throught the radar)

- The Angle on the Bow matches what you saw on the TBT screen

-Note that at the bottom of the "Target" dial is a white triangle under the Torpedo Gyro indicator (hard to see).

- Left click on the target dial and hold to drag the triangle on the "Target" dial around, causing the triangles on the "Target Course" dial to move in concert.

- Move the "Target" dial triangle around until the triangle on the "Target Course" dial is at appx 348 on the outter dial.

- Go to the TBT and send the AOB

- Come back to the TDC and click/hold/drag left mouse in the "Target Course" dial (for fine adjustments) and now move the second triangle until it is at the "8" position on the inner dial.

- Outer dial "34", innder dial "8" = 348.

- Go to the TBT and click "send" again to send AOB again.

- The target course in the TDC is now 348.

JCC

[Cpt.Kool]

Originally Posted by Roger Dodger

You can get the download edition for about $10 at: www.Direct2Drive.com

Thanks Roger! We went back to Pearl Harbour and my information officer got 1.5 (secret Uboat info) for € 4.99 from a guy called Ubi Store (strange name, maybe a foreigner). It was past midnight already and most of the crew were on shore leave and drunk.

The crew in the conning tower however was still busy making room for the new equipment. So they immediately put in new cables, connectors and stuff like that. And then we power up..., to check....

Nothing! And we started up again.... Yes! It works, but we need a secret code to unlock the Uboat info. And this Ubi guy is nowhere to be found anymore. I'm getting angry but what's in a name I don't show it to the crew. Down to the boats documentation and found a secret code.

Back up to the conning tower we put in this code.... Wrong! We got four more try's before the secret info is going to destruct itself. And.., with that our boat! Which, after our first try isn't starting up at all!

So we send out all the crew that was still able to walk, to look for this Ubi guy. We could not find him anymore. We were really disappointed. But getting back on board we found a message on the conning tower.

"Thank you for the 4.99 renown. Now I can have a bed and a shower in the house of the homeless. I forgot to tell you, you will need this secret code to unlock the information: SH4-UNLCK-SCRT-CDES.

Thanks again,

Ubi S."

It looks very genuine so we give it our second try. It works and everybody is very happy!! I go to bed while the crew looks trough the newly got secret info. I am dreaming about the war and how we are stuck with bad rangefinding and plotting somewhere near Tokio harbour in 1943. It's 1941. I woke up.

I climbed up to the deck to see this new morning.., but it's really awfull! Everything looks twice as big as yesterday! I must still be dreaming! Back inside the crew is depressed. I am not dreaming! I realize that the captain missed to implement the secret DRCTx9c information to the ships computer.

It's december 9 1941 and we're going to war. While the new crew is coming aboard I heard something about radarrange finding. This gives us hope....

Cpt. Kool

[I'm goin' down]

Figures! I spent an hour trying to make my video sound work on the damned video!

Why do you go through the PPI radar screen in the video?

[I'm goin' down]

You new mod, along with the tutorials and videos, is going to keep a lot of skippers preoccupied for a LONG TIME! I for one like the idea of playing with map contacts off, something I had not tried until now as Captain Scurvy's tutorial was no practical to use on a regular basis. Your program is. Plus, the video tutorials and practice mission introduce many to true stealth on an attack run. We cannot see the target some of the time and can still launch a successful attack! Thanks for all of your hard work and contribution to the game.

This is the essence of a hard core mod in my opinion.

[I'm goin' down]

Raining pussycats in this mission.

I hit the first target which the sonarman announced at a bearing of 46 degrees and was 4 for 6. I was feeling pretty good. So I went for the whole enchilada.

The second target was announced at a bearing of 180 degrees. But my readings said 172.5 at 2350 yds. I tried two sets of shots at that angle (172.5) with a one-half degree spread and missed. For good measure, I tried a solo shot at 179 degrees. Missed again.

What did I do wrong re the target's bearing? Is this the range differential issue you have addressed in your posts ? (I thought I was on a roll, too.)

Third target -- on hold for the moment.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

What did I do wrong re the target's bearing?

From the first training mission, which you used to gain experience of getting a bearing on a series of static targets and confirming that bearing optically:

To get an accurate reading of the relative bearing of a target, read the bearing from the back edge of the contact. To do this, sweep the beam clockwise over the pip and when it disappears, step backwards using the mouse wheel (move the mouse wheel towards you) until the pip re-appears on the 'A' Scope. Look at the radar train bearing indicator and read off the relative bearing.

If you were about seven degrees off, then you measured the bearing from the wrong 'edge' as the radar will pick up a target over a seven degree arc. Sweep over and then step back. Sweep Over, Step Back. Sweep Over Step, Back.

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

This is the essence of a hard core mod in my opinion.

And that's why only four people will ever use it :-).