Obama surrenders Arizona territory back to Mexico...

Well maybe if the Lib's quit giving them so much material.

How dumb are Fox for complaining about the border fence construction being stopped while showing footage of illegals just climbing over a border fence that has already been built?

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

How dumb are Fox for complaining about the border fence construction being stopped while showing footage of illegals just climbing over a border fence that has already been built?

Excellent point.

[Task Force]

Wow, think of how confused the aliens we meet there will be when they say.

"Hola Senor! Welcome to Mexico!"

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

They need to be tougher since Mexico is obviously too corrupt or uninterested or incapable of solving the problem on their end.

As far as governments go, this seems to be the problem on USA's side of the border as well.
And the problem is "bi-partisan". There's realy only one party in an oligarchy.

The same problem exists over much of Europe, and The World.
Same banksters, crooks, traitors, and puppets.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Blacklight

FOX News just keeps getting more googlie-mooglie as each day passes.

^^+1

Having a part of Arizona be too dangerous for US. Citizens is completely different that giving it back to mexico. Shame on you FOX have you no decency? You'll say anything on a headline to pander to your viewer base and get ratings

[krashkart]

Well, on one hand, if the government keeps putting the problem off then that part of Arizona may well become Mexican cartel territory. It's not like the US is handing the land over to Mexico and saying "Here you go. We didn't have any use for it, may as well be yours now.", they are just not expressing a whole lot of concern over the increasing threats from cartel violence. Let alone doing much about it.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

^^+1

Having a part of Arizona be too dangerous for US. Citizens is completely different that giving it back to mexico. Shame on you FOX have you no decency? You'll say anything on a headline to pander to your viewer base and get ratings

I'll have to disagree to a certain extent.

When the president - tasked with protecting America from aggressive invasion - says to the American people:

"Just dont go into this part of America anymore and things will be fine."

no...


no, they wont Mr. President

because that area will just grow larger and larger until the problem is uncontainable and uncontrollable.

In essence he is ceding that territory to the aggressors.

Unless of course he sends several thousand troops into the area to secure it, and defend the sovereignty and security of the area, returning it to American hands.


if i were a citizen of Arizona right now... i would be outraged that a portion of my state - a public parkland no less - has been abandoned due to foreign criminal action (and lack of federal action). And i would feel like the Federal Government had turned its back on me.

FOX shouldnt be ashamed... any more than any other "news" outlet - they are ALL out to get ratings - they ALL play the ratings game... you should know that unless you have been hiding under the rock of naivety for decades.

It is the President of the United States of America who should be ashamed of himself!



EDIT:

Ill, add this: Never in the history of this nation except for perhaps the revolutionary war or the civil war - has a portion of this country - however large or small - been deemed "too dangerous for civilian occupation"... except now it has... and it has taken place on HIS watch.

[TLAM Strike]

Serous question here...

Lots of people want the army to go in and secure the border in AZ. Normally that is the job of the US Border Patrol, a law enforcement organization. Does US law (Specifically Pose Comitatus) allow the military to act as a LEOs against foreigners on US soil?

[GoldenRivet]

That is a good question.

Two things need to happen here.

1. The US Border patrol needs to receive the funding and man power it needs and it should be allowed to enter this fight without having one hand tied behind it's back.

2. The US Congress needs to recognize these drug cartels and these criminals flooding across the border as aggressive, and name them a clear and present danger to the national security (because they are, we have already caught Al Quida sympathizers among them). Once that takes place, the military should intervene.

a fence is not going to work.

machine gun nests every X miles wont work.

you have to have a dedicated force to patrol the border (and i dont mean one man per every 20 miles of border land... i mean more like 20 men per every mile of borderland (exaggeration but not by much)



When your trying to protect your home from intrusion it does NO GOOD to lock the front door and all the windows... but open the back door wide open and ignore whoever enters it, and thats exactly what America is doing here.

do we think the terrorist organizations that seek to do harm to this nation DONT watch the news?

they know our weakness for human trafficking is right across the Arizona and Texas borders and they also know whe have an administration in power in the white house who is more inclined to sit back and do nothing.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Serous question here...

Lots of people want the army to go in and secure the border in AZ. Normally that is the job of the US Border Patrol, a law enforcement organization. Does US law (Specifically Pose Comitatus) allow the military to act as a LEOs against foreigners on US soil?

Yes and no. It would take a congressional act to authorize such a thing, and there is not one forthcoming, so I'm inclined to say no, but it is possible.

Not that we'd ever want such a thing. The US military is a very large sword and it is not meant for such tasks. A considerable amount of retraining would be required and there would have to be very specific Rules of Engamenet and it would all be very expensive.......I don't think using kids with guns to secure the border would be a good idea.

Posse Comitatus is a particularly sensitive subject anyway, especially in Southern states, so again I see it as being possible but not politically plausible.

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

1. The US Border patrol needs to receive the funding and man power it needs and it should be allowed to enter this fight without having one hand tied behind it's back.

2. The US Congress needs to recognize these drug cartels and these criminals flooding across the border as aggressive, and name them a clear and present danger to the national security (because they are, we have already caught Al Quida sympathizers among them). Once that takes place, the military should intervene.

I'd be careful with that kind of thinking, John. You really, really have to make sure that you know what you're doing before you propose such ideas. I understand that you're concerned about the border situation, and I can certainly understand the concern about it being vulnerable to terrorists, but let's step back and look at it for a moment.

1) Why is terrorism a problem? That's a question I simply don't have the answer to. There are theories, but none of them give us a be-all end-all solution, so that's out.

2) Why is illegal immigration a problem? That's a question that I know the answer to, but it is also an area of concern where logic applies only infrequently. Like most issues of scale, it is purely about politics. Liberals want the votes and Republicans want votes from promising people that there jobs will be preserved. It is, for lack of a better word, a clusterfrack.

None of that will ultimately matter, of course. Nothing is going to stem the tide of illegal immigrants and the drug trade and whatnot. There is a very powerful, even primal source that is behind this stuff. People want to make a better life for themselves and for their families, and no amount of half-hearted dictation from Washington is ever going to change that. Even if you put one man on every single square foot of the US border, you would not fix the problem. Mexican immigrants may not be as smart as you, but they are smart enough to get around you. The same is doubly true for drug cartels. Trying to regulate such things is like trying to crush water. It is futility, in it's purest sense.

Instead of wasting our time and resources on this politically-motivated garbage, we should be concentrating our efforts on liifting the lamp beside the golden door. We're the best nation in the word for a reason. Let them in. Let them all in. This is place where you have a chance to prove yourself or at least make a decent living by trying.

We are the greatest nation in the world, and it is high time we started acting like it.

[GoldenRivet]

I can see your side of the argument clearly.

And im all for lifting the lamp by the golden door etc,


Problem is a lot of these Mexican's dont want to be Americans.

They dont want to embrace American traditions, customs, or even in some cases Laws.

Right here in Texas, near your neck of the woods actually, i saw a Whataburger with a bunch of cars in the lot all with massive mexican flags in the rear window... the place was packed with hispanics (legal or not who knows) to top it off, the American AND Texas Flags on the flag poles outside the whataburger were both hanging upside down.

these "immigrants" are unlike your Irish immigrants of the late 1800s and early 1900s... these "immigrants" are a whole new issue.

they simply want to live here and receive all of the benefits of living here without any of the commitment to becoming "Americans" - label them whatever you want, this is an aggressive invasion any way you slice it.

I really hate that it will have to come down to a Nuclear weapon exploding in Phoenix to win over some hearts and minds... and though thats an extreme example... you have to admit In August of 2001 the world trade center attack was pretty unthinkable too.

[MH]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I really hate that it will have to come down to a Nuclear weapon exploding in Phoenix to win over some hearts and minds... and though thats an extreme example... you have to admit In August of 2001 the world trade center attack was pretty unthinkable too.

This is passe method....

New method:
Build a mosque and let UN declare surrounding territory as autonomy.

[Freiwillige]

I don't understand why they need federal troops at all. The Arizona national guard is big enough to do the job. are they controlled at the federal level or by the Local government? If federal then why have a state national guard in the first place?

I mean the National guard base has blackhawks, Apache's older M1 Abrams.

Put the military on the border, Let them make arrests and work in conjunction with border patrol, And lastly let the armed squads engage armed gangs with lethal force.

What that story says is true. Those park closings do exist. But I believe they were closed by those counties themselves because they don't have enough enforcement to stop them from coming through.

[Zachstar]

Ah more right wing grandstanding.

Tell you what you crap of a state AZ if you give us every scrap of mining land you have and every bit of whatever economy you somehow possess. You can take that dirt state and secede in my view. I wonder how long before the UN would have to declare that "country" in desperate need of aid. But what that is SOCIALISM!!! Guess the people there would rather starve.


I could care less as long as the US keeps the copper and other minerals.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

I don't understand why they need federal troops at all. The Arizona national guard is big enough to do the job. are they controlled at the federal level or by the Local government? If federal then why have a state national guard in the first place?

The National Guard is under the control of the Governor of the state (Title 31 U.S.C) unless called to national service under Title 10 U.S.C. by the US Congress (Article I, Section 8; para 15 of the Constitution). When the Congress calls them up for National Service, only then does the President of the United States become their commander (Article II Section 2).

Pub.L. 109-364 passed in 2007 gives the POTUS the authority to take control of a States national guard without the permission of the Governor.

This was, in my opinion a "Bad Thing" and clearly I was not the only one who thought so

However, In 2008, this was modified by Pub.L. 110-181 so that now the POTUS can only take command of the State's national guard during "Congressionally sanctioned national emergency or war."

That's better