Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

Huh for 'unarmed peacefull' activist they were pretty well armed.

OMG they had a box of plates, are you sure it wasn't a greek restaurant.

Its wierd , today thay say the protesters had stun grenades, yesterday the said it was themselves using stun grenades and the protesters replying with petrol bombs. Now there are no petrol bombs but stun grenades and errrrr.......water.
Yesterday they claimed it was protesters prepared for violence with pistols and a rifle, today they have come up with two Israeli pistols and a pair of slingshots.

Originally Posted by jimbuna

You obviously derive some form of perverse pleasure in the subjective comments you repeatedly make.

Try thinking about nice things for a change....you might get to like it

I like German cars.... and shepards. Its extreme speed ahead baby

Its really funny that you demetrius write......

Strong logical argument right there

...in a post that is devoid of logic.

[eskachig]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

OMG they had a box of plates, are you sure it wasn't a greek restaurant.

Its wierd , today thay say the protesters had stun grenades, yesterday the said it was themselves using stun grenades and the protesters replying with petrol bombs. Now there are no petrol bombs but stun grenades and errrrr.......water.
Yesterday they claimed it was protesters prepared for violence with pistols and a rifle, today they have come up with two Israeli pistols and a pair of slingshots.

Yes, the details sometimes take a couple of days to come out, look at that. About as long as formal reports take to be made and circulated.

Anyway, I don't think the minutae is such a big deal here, when we have clear videos of the attack - the mob lynching is plain to see. The giant load of improvised weapons used in the beating is there. Guns or stun grenades - I don't see how it changes anything. Use of at least one petrol bomb was caught on film.

[Safe-Keeper]

I'm sure they kept all this stuff on board just for fun.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_Marmaris.jpg

[Bilge_Rat]

On a semi-related note, it is interesting to see how prevalent the use of videos has become in these battles for public opinion.

The IDF has its own youtube channel and some of its videos have had over 600,000 views. The Al-Jazeera footage has had over 500,000 views.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/wo...html?ref=world

When Israeli commandos attacked the so-called Freedom Flotilla, both sides were well armed — with video cameras — and both sides have released a blizzard of video clips as evidence that the other side was the aggressor in the conflict on Monday, which left nine activists dead.

[msxyz]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

On a semi-related note, it is interesting to see how prevalent the use of videos has become in these battles for public opinion.

The IDF has its own youtube channel and some of its videos have had over 600,000 views. The Al-Jazeera footage has had over 500,000 views.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/wo...html?ref=world

Right on spot. Today a video is a batter instrument of war than a weapon. You can win battles on the field but loose a war in the eyes of the media/public opinion

[pipin]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

So football hooligans are also "peace activists" now. Maybe the police should just avoid them before you call them nazis. Strong logical argument right there

...Or your "dangerous armed terrorists" aboard were nothing more that supid "hooligans"... this if you like continuing with stupid analogies... something that will bring us nowere...

Yes, the details sometimes take a couple of days to come out, look at that. About as long as formal reports take to be made and circulated.

Yep, there was an article yesterday by some american ex-colonel who said ignore all the early reports the IDF gave out, he said when such lengthy and apparently detailed statements are available for release as the story breaks it can only mean its pre-prepared bull.

Use of at least one petrol bomb was caught on film.

That was one of the first they put out wasn't it, a very strange petrol bomb that showed no signs of being lit or burning .

I'm sure they kept all this stuff on board just for fun.

Thats damning evidence, a pile of kitcken knives on a big passenger ship, I wonder where they came from, and look spanners, hammers and screwdrivers and...... wow a paint roller.
whodathunk such a deadly cache of everday items can be found on any passenger vessel

[pipin]

Originally Posted by eskachig

Yes, the details sometimes take a couple of days to come out, look at that. About as long as formal reports take to be made and circulated.

Anyway, I don't think the minutae is such a big deal here, when we have clear videos of the attack - the mob lynching is plain to see. The giant load of improvised weapons used in the beating is there. Guns or stun grenades - I don't see how it changes anything. Use of at least one petrol bomb was caught on film.

it changes everything if they were armed with guns or not!

To end up shooting people with impovisioned weapons is disproportionate reaction! this is why police does not shoot at protesters during street fightnings even if they violent and put them in danger...

[MH]

In the light of all the evidence available i cant believe that that anyone can still say that Israel carried brutal attacks on innocent peace activist.
Some people here are just stubborn haters or try to out smart their own commonsense
You have really no idea what world you are living in while siting somewhere by fireplace in Finland or wherever.
I think out of boredom and lack of sun you can blame 11 of September attacks on Mossed while reading The Protocols of Elders of Zion
I can understand that there may be different opinions about Israeli polices toward Palestinians ....but this went much too far i think.
Just go join next ship with hammas maybe you will get to shoot Kalashnikov if you prove your selfs good human rights defenders using metal pipes first.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by pipin

it changes everything if they were armed with guns or not!

How it changes anything? It doesn't change the fact that the IDF commandos got an hostile response to their boarding attempt, nor does it change the fact that there's a video that clearly shows one of the activists trying to stab one of the commandos in the back, nor does it change the fact they were running the blockade even after being warned many times not to do it.

To end up shooting people with impovisioned weapons is disproportionate reaction! this is why police does not shoot at protesters during street fightnings even if they violent and put them in danger...

Maybe it's because you have room to maneuver on the streets and there's usually a whole bunch of officers to back you up. You can bet your arse that if in a riot, few officers are massed up against by a dozen rioters clubbing them with steelrods and whatever they can get their hands on, that the officers will do whatever it takes to get out of that situation. Even use deadly force.

In the light of all the evidence available i cant believe that that anyone can still say that Israel carried brutal attacks on innocent peace activist.

Very few people here are making any claims even remotely like that.

How it changes anything?

It changes in so far as it demonstrates a false claim, the claim was put out that the protesters were armed with guns and opened fire with live ammunition before the IDF boarded the ship, by now it appears that is clearly not the case.
Likewise with the petrol bomb, that too appears to be a false claim.
So now onto the stun grenades, not exactly a deadly weapon is it, but even that claim looks to be dodgy as teh footage appears to show it was thrown from below, hit the side of the ship and then fell back into the navy boat.

Perhaps it doesn't change anything..... for those who are swallowing propoganda without thought or those who will maintain a preset position regardless of any facts on the issue.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It changes in so far as it demonstrates a false claim, the claim was put out that the protesters were armed with guns and opened fire with live ammunition before the IDF boarded the ship, by now it appears that is clearly not the case.
Likewise with the petrol bomb, that too appears to be a false claim.
So now onto the stun grenades, not exactly a deadly weapon is it, but even that claim looks to be dodgy as teh footage appears to show it was thrown from below, hit the side of the ship and then fell back into the navy boat.
.

There is really no point in analyzing this so much.
The bottom line is that Israeli commandos were attacked with brutal premeditated deadly force.
The only option that they had to avoid getting lynched was to use deadly force as a response and thats about it.
All the argument if stun grenade was thrown and what brand it was or what kind of fuel was used in fire bomb and where it fell is pointless bullocks because i'm sure most of you if anyone wasn't even in remotely similar situation.

[pipin]

Originally Posted by Dowly

How it changes anything? It doesn't change the fact that the IDF commandos got an hostile response to their boarding attempt, nor does it change the fact that there's a video that clearly shows one of the activists trying to stab one of the commandos in the back, nor does it change the fact they were running the blockade even after being warned many times not to do it.

Indeed this stabbing episode will be important in the future investigations, determinant will be the chronology and if isolated or not.

Originally Posted by Dowly

Maybe it's because you have room to maneuver on the streets and there's usually a whole bunch of officers to back you up. You can bet your arse that if in a riot, few officers are massed up against by a dozen rioters clubbing them with steelrods and whatever they can get their hands on, that the officers will do whatever it takes to get out of that situation. Even use deadly force.

Rest assured that if the police does something similar it will come under a storm of critics! I talk by experience as here in Italy we had a similar case during the 2001 G8.