Aircraft at night ?

oscar19681 · 03-26-10, 12:45 PM

Its 1941 , i,m in the med . So i go for the 30.000 merchant sink mission. Lots of aircraft so i wait for midnight so to avoid the aircraft. But what do you know? The allies have night vision and fly at night now. WTF? What happended to the dive during the day surface at night tactic?

The General · 03-26-10, 12:55 PM

I have spent alot of time on here defending SH5 lately, but when The Devs haven't managed to get the Aircraft deployment model right in three generations of Silent Hunter I am just at a loss for words

jhelix70 · 03-26-10, 12:57 PM

I've noticed this too...they fly at night as much as the day.

SteamWake · 03-26-10, 12:58 PM

You dident have to wait for night the aircraft dont attack anyhow.

Or at least I have never been attacked.

oscar19681 · 03-26-10, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The General

I have spent alot of time on here defending SH5 lately, but when The Devs haven't managed to get the Aircraft deployment model right in three generations of Silent Hunter I am just at a loss for words

I,m sorry to say that i,m starting to feel teh same way. The so called " historical accuracy " and other bugs are just slowly starting to take there toll.

daft · 03-26-10, 02:09 PM

By -41, radar attacks would theoretically be possible I suppose, but they certainly weren't happening in any large numbers from what I can recall. In reality I think the Allies still had not made a successful night attack against a U-boat by the middle of -41.

sdflyer · 03-26-10, 02:30 PM

Whats wrong with flying at night? Clear nights are perfect for flying! What is not realistic ?

kraznyi_oktjabr · 03-26-10, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdflyer

Whats wrong with flying at night? Clear nights are perfect for flying! What is not realistic ?

Well flying itself is not. Problem is that there is no point in it. How are you supposed to find lonely u-boat in darkness? That is hard even in good conditions.

EDIT: Modified to more appropriate approach

03-26-10, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

You dident have to wait for night the aircraft dont attack anyhow.

Or at least I have never been attacked.

yep the AI for plans is broken, they may as well be birds because they will never attack you under any curcumstances.

i would guess this will be fixed in the next patch

Nordmann · 03-26-10, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdflyer

Whats wrong with flying at night? Clear nights are perfect for flying! What is not realistic ?

Perhaps the fact that you are unlikely to spot anything as small as a submarine, even on a clear night. Hence the reason why submarines recharged their batteries during the night.

sdflyer · 03-26-10, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Well flying itself is not. Problem is that there is no point in it. How are you supposed to find lonely u-boat in darkness? That is hard even in good conditions.

EDIT: Modified to more appropriate approach

In a clear full moon night it's quite possible. The other question I'm for example a Hurricane pilot searching for the enemy bombers why would I care about submarine which I can't even identify from altitude. For the most part I would just report it unless radio silence order has been issued ..

sdflyer · 03-26-10, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordmann

Perhaps the fact that you are unlikely to spot anything as small as a submarine, even on a clear night. Hence the reason why submarines recharged their batteries during the night.

Actually it depends on altitude and purpose of the flight . If my flight was specifically dispatch to search for a submarine I would have few extra crew members with binoculars looking for enemy submarines. That would increase chance of finding them .

During WWII there were a lot of cases when fighter searching for the t enemy bombers (during clear full moon nights). If it possible to find a small bomber at night then it is possible to find a submarine.

Nordmann · 03-26-10, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdflyer

Actually it depends on altitude and purpose of the flight . If my flight was specifically dispatch to search for a submarine I would have few extra crew members with binoculars looking for enemy submarines. That would increase chance of finding them .

During WWII there were a lot of cases when fighter searching for the t enemy bombers (during clear full moon nights). If it possible to find a small bomber at night then it is possible to find a submarine.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying that your chances are not as good as they would be during daylight hours. Especially early war, when planes and ASW equipment were lacking in all departments.

Heibges · 03-26-10, 10:56 PM

I think it would be impossible for an airplane without radar to find a submarine at night unless the sureface of the ocean was like glass, and then it would be 99.999% impossible.

walsh2509 · 03-26-10, 11:01 PM

Early air-to-surface radar sets, namely the ASV Mk. II, had a fairly long minimum detection range. Thus as the aircraft approached the target, it would disappear off the radar at a range that was too great to allow it to be seen by eye at night without some form of illumination. At first aircraft solved this problem by dropping flares to light up the area, but since the flare only lit up the area directly under the aircraft, a string would have to be dropped until the submarine was spotted. Once it was spotted the aircraft would have to circle back to attack, the entire process giving the submarine a fair amount of time to dive out of danger.
Eventually time delayed flares were developed that allowed the attacking plane time to circle. The flare was fired into the air from a buoy previously dropped by the plane. The surfaced submarine could then be seen in silhouette as the plane approached.
Wing Commander Humphrey de Verd Leigh, an RAF personnel officer, came up with his own solution after chatting with returning air crew. This was to mount a searchlight under the aircraft, pointed forward and allowing the submarine to be spotted as soon as it was turned on. He then developed the Leigh light entirely off his own bat, in secret and without official sanction - even the Air Ministry were unaware of its development until shown the completed prototype.[2] At first it was difficult to fit on aircraft due to its size. Leigh persisted in his efforts to test the idea, and garnered the support of the Commander-in-Chief of Coastal Command, Sir Frederick Bowhill. In March 1941 a Vickers Wellington DWI that conveniently already had the necessary generator on board, (it had been used for anti-magnetic mining operations using a large electromagnet) was modified with a retractable "dustbin" holding the lamp, and proved the concept sound.
At this point the Air Ministry decided that the idea was worthwhile, but that they should instead use the Turbinlite, a less effective system which had been originally developed as an aid for nighttime bomber interception. After trials they too eventually decided to use Leigh's system, but it was not until mid-1942 that aircraft started being modified to carry it.

03-26-10, 12:45 PM	#1
oscar19681 Admiral Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: netherlands Posts: 2,020 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Aircraft at night ? Its 1941 , i,m in the med . So i go for the 30.000 merchant sink mission. Lots of aircraft so i wait for midnight so to avoid the aircraft. But what do you know? The allies have night vision and fly at night now. WTF? What happended to the dive during the day surface at night tactic? __________________ we live we die but death does not ends it. Jim Morrison 1943-1971

03-26-10, 12:55 PM	#2
The General The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mountain Ash, Wales, U.K. Posts: 1,548 Downloads: 179 Uploads: 3	I have spent alot of time on here defending SH5 lately, but when The Devs haven't managed to get the Aircraft deployment model right in three generations of Silent Hunter I am just at a loss for words __________________ *THE GENERAL*

03-26-10, 12:58 PM	#4
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	You dident have to wait for night the aircraft dont attack anyhow. Or at least I have never been attacked. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

03-26-10, 02:09 PM	#6
daft Captain Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 493 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	By -41, radar attacks would theoretically be possible I suppose, but they certainly weren't happening in any large numbers from what I can recall. In reality I think the Allies still had not made a successful night attack against a U-boat by the middle of -41. __________________ And God said: \"Let there be Narrowband!\"

03-26-10, 10:56 PM	#14
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I think it would be impossible for an airplane without radar to find a submarine at night unless the sureface of the ocean was like glass, and then it would be 99.999% impossible. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

03-26-10, 12:57 PM	#3
jhelix70 Sparky Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 152 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I've noticed this too...they fly at night as much as the day.

03-26-10, 02:30 PM	#7
sdflyer Seaman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 35 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Whats wrong with flying at night? Clear nights are perfect for flying! What is not realistic ?

03-26-10, 11:01 PM	#15
walsh2509 XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 410 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Early air-to-surface radar sets, namely the ASV Mk. II, had a fairly long minimum detection range. Thus as the aircraft approached the target, it would disappear off the radar at a range that was too great to allow it to be seen by eye at night without some form of illumination. At first aircraft solved this problem by dropping flares to light up the area, but since the flare only lit up the area directly under the aircraft, a string would have to be dropped until the submarine was spotted. Once it was spotted the aircraft would have to circle back to attack, the entire process giving the submarine a fair amount of time to dive out of danger. Eventually time delayed flares were developed that allowed the attacking plane time to circle. The flare was fired into the air from a buoy previously dropped by the plane. The surfaced submarine could then be seen in silhouette as the plane approached. Wing Commander Humphrey de Verd Leigh, an RAF personnel officer, came up with his own solution after chatting with returning air crew. This was to mount a searchlight under the aircraft, pointed forward and allowing the submarine to be spotted as soon as it was turned on. He then developed the Leigh light entirely off his own bat, in secret and without official sanction - even the Air Ministry were unaware of its development until shown the completed prototype.[2] At first it was difficult to fit on aircraft due to its size. Leigh persisted in his efforts to test the idea, and garnered the support of the Commander-in-Chief of Coastal Command, Sir Frederick Bowhill. In March 1941 a Vickers Wellington DWI that conveniently already had the necessary generator on board, (it had been used for anti-magnetic mining operations using a large electromagnet) was modified with a retractable "dustbin" holding the lamp, and proved the concept sound. At this point the Air Ministry decided that the idea was worthwhile, but that they should instead use the Turbinlite, a less effective system which had been originally developed as an aid for nighttime bomber interception. After trials they too eventually decided to use Leigh's system, but it was not until mid-1942 that aircraft started being modified to carry it.