How Do Pirates Hack a Game ?

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

I honestly think it;s going to be the Gameing Community that is someday going to stop Hacker\Pirates and put "Them" out of business.

Expand on this please. I'm interested in your thoughts on how you see it happening

[Dowly]

This thread has served it's purpose already.

Just check Neon's post, that's about all there is to it. I'd say the main supply is someone who works in a game store etc. who gets his hand on to a copy before the street date.

[Brag]

Bwa ha ha. This thread was derailed and moved. Full service. Where are we?

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Neon this thread has done just fine except for a couple of posts You should talk to.

Delete the posts that try to derail this thread instead.

Well technically I could lock down the entire thread

Originally Posted by Subsim FAQ & Rules

SUBSIM Review has a longstanding policy against software piracy. We do NOT allow discussion or even mention of warez, abandonware, peer-to-peer game swapping, illegal download sites, or rip-off websites. Nothing will get you banned faster than pointing people to illegal software distribution sites. Don't ask for serial numbers, manuals, or cracks. Any admission that you have in your possession illegal software can and usually will result in revocation of your Radio Room forum account. Support computer game programmers buy legally purchasing their work. They have to eat too, you know.

I underlined the relevant point.

Anyhow we generally don't edit or delete posts unless they violate the major rules. If moderators had to clean out OT posts in threads, Neal would need a full time paid staff of several moderators to handle that work load.

[ERPP8]

They make so much money selling the copies.
One is nothing.

[Herman]

I've found this thread very interesting as an academic discussion.

[FIREWALL]

Well there's got to be an answer how to stop this.

How long do companys like Ubisoft and others need to have their products hacker free until they feel they've made a satisfactory profit.

Maybe a set term for a drm stated on the packageing.

[Herman]

One of the rationale put forth for the implementation of DRM is the prevention of launch-day piracy. Of course, the argument against this is to simply have the DRM removed after a few months. However, few (if any) companies do that. Thus, it seems like the rationale is just more spin to justify draconian DRM.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Herman

One of the rationale put forth for the implementation of DRM is the prevention of launch-day piracy. Of course, the argument against this is to simply have the DRM removed after a few months. However, few (if any) companies do that. Thus, it seems like the rationale is just more spin to justify draconian DRM.

Well said. Easy to understand.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Heretic

Expand on this please. I'm interested in your thoughts on how you see it happening

If I had the answer to that Heritic I'd be a hero.

Well to the paid customers and the Game Publishers.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Herman

One of the rationale put forth for the implementation of DRM is the prevention of launch-day piracy.

It doesn't really work well, if the crackers are getting their hands on copies of the game before it is released, when the pirate version is available before the retail version is.

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Well there's got to be an answer how to stop this.

For the niche genres, of which subsims definately are, I'd personally like to see a new type of model set up, where the player buys the main game for the same or slightly reduced cost, then every x months, the game developers release a new 'content' add-on with some extra features. This add-on could address some previous bugs and also add in new tech, like in the SH5 example, $10 for the tech and campaign of 1944. Then 1945 and all the high end tech. It could keep going on and being expanded, with more ships, more weapons, more stuff that there just isn't time for in a $40 / £40 (can't find the euro symbol) game.

The advantages would be the same dev team and engine could be kept on, which would minimise disruption and time lost in setting up a new titile and maximise the knowledge of the game engine being developed for. Also, there would be a steady income stream for the developer and steady improvements for the community. Even if people didn't want to play it, they could decide to 'donate' their money to support the genre. If the same title were continuously developed then we'd have, after a while, a very deep sim, with most of the issues addressed.

Of course this would have to be done properly, e.g. not have the same bugs ignored over and over, like in the patches. It would have to be a serious attempt to better the product, not just dash for the cash.

[Herman]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

It doesn't really work well, if the crackers are getting their hands on copies of the game before it is released, when the pirate version is available before the retail version is.

I think that it can work well. Let's use the Storm Eagle Studios example. They claim that their server-chained DRM scheme is unbreakable and that may very well be the case since every installation must always call home to SES pretty much every time the customer wants to play.

Now, those games have been out for months/years. So, it is conceivable that the launch-day piracy 'threat' has long passed. Why not take it off and go with a less intrusive protection mechanism like simple ID#s the way Matrix does it? I think that there are plenty of folks who would gladly sit out a launch-day piracy scheme and patiently await the DRM-free version.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Herman

I've found this thread very interesting as an academic discussion.

Thx Herman I think the Community here has an answer to somewhat solve this problem maybe.

That old saying " Out of the mouths of Babes "

I would like to be able to hear Neal say "It Happened Here "

[Heretic]

The Storm Eagle DRM model caused me to pass up Jutland. They're such a small studio, I didn't think I could risk getting that final patch to make the game playable, if they went belly up.

Matrix games uses a serial number model. It seems to work pretty well, but they're an even smaller niche than sub sims and their games are cheap to make, relatively, and sell only a few thousand copies.

I don't know the answer to this. Maybe there isn't one. I think it will end with the publishers just getting out of the PC market.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

It doesn't really work well, if the crackers are getting their hands on copies of the game before it is released, when the pirate version is available before the retail version is.



For the niche genres, of which subsims definately are, I'd personally like to see a new type of model set up, where the player buys the main game for the same or slightly reduced cost, then every x months, the game developers release a new 'content' add-on with some extra features. This add-on could address some previous bugs and also add in new tech, like in the SH5 example, $10 for the tech and campaign of 1944. Then 1945 and all the high end tech. It could keep going on and being expanded, with more ships, more weapons, more stuff that there just isn't time for in a $40 / £40 (can't find the euro symbol) game.

The advantages would be the same dev team and engine could be kept on, which would minimise disruption and time lost in setting up a new titile and maximise the knowledge of the game engine being developed for. Also, there would be a steady income stream for the developer and steady improvements for the community. Even if people didn't want to play it, they could decide to 'donate' their money to support the genre. If the same title were continuously developed then we'd have, after a while, a very deep sim, with most of the issues addressed.

Of course this would have to be done properly, e.g. not have the same bugs ignored over and over, like in the patches. It would have to be a serious attempt to better the product, not just dash for the cash.

Originally Posted by Herman

I think that it can work well. Let's use the Storm Eagle Studios example. They claim that their server-chained DRM scheme is unbreakable and that may very well be the case since every installation must always call home to SES pretty much every time the customer wants to play.

Now, those games have been out for months/years. So, it is conceivable that the launch-day piracy 'threat' has long passed. Why not take it off and go with a less intrusive protection mechanism like simple ID#s the way Matrix does it? I think that there are plenty of folks who would gladly sit out a launch-day piracy scheme and patiently await the DRM-free version.

Originally Posted by Heretic

The Storm Eagle DRM model caused me to pass up Jutland. They're such a small studio, I didn't think I could risk getting that final patch to make the game playable, if they went belly up.

Matrix games uses a serial number model. It seems to work pretty well, but they're an even smaller niche than sub sims and their games are cheap to make, relatively, and sell only a few thousand copies.

I don't know the answer to this. Maybe there isn't one. I think it will end with the publishers just getting out of the PC market.

Great thoughts on this guys.

Run with it.