SHV may be a flop because no one cares anymore

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ERPP8

Other than DRM why is SHV supposed to suck?

The early end date (1943).
Only one type of sub (Type VII).
Silly-looking periscope interface.

Those are all listed objections. As I've posted in other threads, I don't see any of them as a real problem, due to the claimed modability of the game, but those are things others have complained about.

[Frederf]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Silent Hunter 5 looks like being an arcade game targeted at the casual gamer and only available via the internet.

I can't think of a worse combination than that.

Originally Posted by Kapitanleutnant

SH5 will flop because the simulation has been diluted in an effort to chase a larger market.
There are a lot of people - gamers - who will look at a subsim (or any sim) and think "BORING!"

I can't help but agree that this should be common sense from a marketing standpoint. How can you hope to make SH5 appeal to a(n) arcade/console audience? Why would you try? Is it not the same as making high heels that are good for mountain climbing?

A sim should not try to compete with action console games, they will drag him down to their level and beat them with experience. Even the most arcade sub sim can't compete with CoD:MW2 for ADHD action.

Originally Posted by Egan

(Developers) are big boys and girls and I for one would like to see detailed and reasonable answers to why certain decisions were made in the development of the game. Constructive criticism can only help to make this game better.

I too would love to talk to SH5's design committee to find out what they were thinking, what direction they were going, what was considered important/expendable. The general statements they were making I agree with "make SH5 an experience historically", "focus on a limited part of the war to achieve a better feel", "make the player connect with the crew/boat" but I have no idea how those ideas ended up with what appears to be the end result.

Honestly, DRM is a pretty independent issue and it should be treated as such. It is much more worrying that SH5 will be a crap game. It is much more desirable that SH5 be a good game protected by bad DRM than SH5 to be a bad game protected by an acceptable DRM scheme. DRM can be changed, an awful game cannot.

I respect the idea that TypeVII and 1943 limitations if they result in a better game. A full interior for a submarine takes time and if that means cutting the scope down to one type then that's fine... as long as I have fun in that one type. The campaign in SH3 encompassed the whole war but did so very poorly. If SH5 does '39 to '43 very well by cutting down on the scope, then that's good as well. Scope can be expanded but quality usually isn't.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Frederf

A full interior for a submarine takes time[...]

The Devs made it clear that a lot of detail in models doesn't mean taking time from adding new features (programming), as they're different departments. What one could argue is that making too many ship models took time away from making interiors for more sub types, though it would be pure speculation.

Cheers

[Oneshot/Onekill]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I guess I'm just a sucker for blanket statements that don't ring true: SH3 would have been a flop. SH3 is not a simulation because you cannot turn some widget or control the #3 ngative ballast tank or you cannot take specific gravity readings of each battery. SH3 was not as good a subsim as .... ?

Mods giving a game staying power, that makes sense to me. And I can find that easy to agree with, I think you are right. But I don't know about how many people bought SH3 because of RUB or GWX. Certainly most people who bought SH3 were delighted to add mods to it.

Totally agree with you on this one Neal. I originally purchased SH3 in 2005 shortly after it's release, and after it was patched to 1.4 I played it as is for well over a year and a half before I even knew about GW, or many of the other mods that were out there. Don't get me wrong, I loved the eye candy, but for the most part the vast majority of all of those early mods were just that, eye candy. Nothing really to alter the game's original function's.

[Frederf]

Originally Posted by martes86

The Devs made it clear that a lot of detail in models doesn't mean taking time from adding new features (programming), as they're different departments. What one could argue is that making too many ship models took time away from making interiors for more sub types, though it would be pure speculation.

Cheers

Now, strictly 2D art and 3D modeling yes, but each new submarine means new systems. A dozen or so radar systems and displays across 10 submarine types means appreciable programming (not art) work. Animations for crew would need to be coded for each interior, etc.

That being said, you likely have a point. I just wanted to feel good that because we're only getting a limited sub selection that that would mean a higher quality product... wishful thinking.

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Frederf

Now, strictly 2D art and 3D modeling yes, but each new submarine means new systems. A dozen or so radar systems and displays across 10 submarine types means appreciable programming (not art) work. Animations for crew would need to be coded for each interior, etc.

Good point, though I personally think the time taken by those would be minimal, compared to other features.

That said, I just wanted to show reality to those saying that, since we are getting a game full of nice 3D models, that the gameplay will lack badly, and everything about such statement is completely wrong, because making nicer 3D stuff doesn't mean having a crappy functionality. Just wanted to separate those facts.

Cheers

[psykopatsak]

am rather excited about it, but my comp cannot run it probably, and scince im out of money (im a muscician-student and damn instruments and stuff is expensive) my desk wont be seeing a new rig for a while...

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by psykopatsak

am rather excited about it, but my comp cannot run it probably, and scince im out of money (im a muscician-student and damn instruments and stuff is expensive) my desk wont be seeing a new rig for a while...

At least when your position improves you should have a good idea if the upgrade will be worthwhile.....in an SH5 context.

[Solidsnake2234]

You've never seen everyone not wanting a game to come out? Go check the Brothers in Arm's fanbase. No one want's BiA- Furrious Four, to come out besides CoD fans XD

When I can play more than just a Type VII sub, I'll express a greater interest in SH5. It seems like a fine title, with a lot of promise, but the previous two games offer much more variety at the moment. I would buy an expansion pack in a heartbeat if it included more subs. Still, when I feel like a little Type VII action, it's nice to have SH5 at the ready.

[JU_88]

Ugh another zombie thread.
The only other subs you might get apart from type VII will be modded ones. No expansion, no silent hunter 6, no more silent hunter anything from UBI (ever again probably)

Originally Posted by JU_88

The only other subs you might get apart from type VII will be modded ones. No expansion, no silent hunter 6, no more silent hunter anything from UBI (ever again probably)

Yeah, that's kind of a given. It's a shame that the DRM scheme had to debut with SH5 and Assassin's Creed II. It may very well be that they've destroyed their SH franchise no matter how good SH5 may be.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Hans Uberman

Yeah, that's kind of a given. It's a shame that the DRM scheme had to debut with SH5 and Assassin's Creed II. It may very well be that they've destroyed their SH franchise no matter how good SH5 may be.

The DRM is only part of SHVs problems, also it tried to pander to the causal gamer by heading in a new direction, alienating many fans of the previous games - this might have been fogivable/workable had the game actually been finished. Still, thanks to the work of modders, V is alot better now.

But, I just cant see UBI giving the SH Franchise another reboot in maybe 5 years or so... I just dont think they will bother with it again now.

Originally Posted by JU_88

The DRM is only part of SHVs problems, also it tried to pander to the causal gamer by heading in a new direction, alienating many fans of the previous games - this might have been fogivable/workable had the game actually been finished. Still, thanks to the work of modders, V is alot better now.

But, I just cant see UBI giving the SH Franchise another reboot in maybe 5 years or so... I just dont think they will bother with it again now.

I just hope that someone else will pick up the ball, eventually or that the SDK gets released. (Won't hold my breath on that last one.)

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Ugh another zombie thread.

I love it when someone objects to a statement made over a year-and-a-half earlier. My comments from back then could easily be taken the wrong way now, especially since most of my complaints back then have been fixed. Arguing about this now makes no sense, at least to me.