SH5 Updates from the SUBSIM meeting next week - Page 13

martes86 · 09-28-09, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Well, that's you. But me, I like to go out and have fun too instead of studying/working 24/7. I wouldn't survive if I had a life like yours.

Oh, believe me, the effort pays. Now I go to work in the morning, I do my 10 hours out, get back home, and do whatever I want. A little sacrifice has given me a whole world of unlimited fun, and a good payment (fair enough for a relatively unexperienced guy like me) every month. Now I work, and when I get home, I can have as much fun as I want, or buy tons of stuff. I went to the SubSim Meet this year in Copenhaguen precisely because of this (and it was no cheap travel). Because you're not gonna be your whole life studying. Sure, I might after some time need some upgrades, and so I'll have to study again some stuff, to still be in the market, but for now, I'm done.

rosentorf · 09-28-09, 11:38 AM

No worries, captains with small PCnises... By the time the game runs smoothly you'll be able to grow a bigger one!

Pimp the sh*t out of SH5!!!

P.S.: When SH4 came out my system couldn't deal with it either. But I did not mind playing it on low settings...most of the time I am looking at the 2D-map anyway. I doubt it will be different in SH5! And since it is not a FPS I didn't mind the low frame rate too when I was peeking through the periscope.
If it will be the same with SH5 so be it! It'll be just the sweeter when I finally get a faster PC to enjoy a great game (as I am sure it will be) with top notch graphics!!!

USS Sea Tiger · 09-28-09, 11:41 AM

Sir,,

Did they happen to say what U-boat types would be available, I.E> Type I Type IIA Type XXIII??

also, Did they mention inwhat format the modeling would be so that we can prepare for our updates?

On a lighter note, How does UBIsoft people feel about us modding their hard works/ game? zI ask this that in their IL-2 it is not moddable with exception of skins,
yet in SIII and SHIV it seems they deliberatly made the models crackable for us modders to further develop the program.

Jimbuna · 09-28-09, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USS Sea Tiger

yet in SIII and SHIV it seems they deliberatly made the models crackable for us modders to further develop the program.

But that did add to the longevity of the game

Sonarman · 09-28-09, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFish

The video card memory poll shows 80% of all people have 512mb or more so it'd be a valid and wise decision for the devs to go with that as a minimum requirement

I'm not so sure, 20% of your customers is a lot to throw away in a niche product like SH, the last thing we want to do is decrease the audience as that would undoubtably mean no SH6 and beyond. Scalability as always is the key.

martes86 · 09-28-09, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonarman

I'm not so sure, 20% of your customers is a lot to throw away in a niche product like SH, the last thing we want to do is decrease the audience as that would undoubtably mean no SH6 and beyond. Scalability as always is the key.

Yeah but that's here. Remember that the devs want to appeal not only to us subsimmers, but to the general public as well. Doing a sim that's stuck in the older technologies because 20% of the subsimmers can't handle new stuff is a big error, in order to appeal to that public, you have to improve what you're doing, or risk being seen as an old product unable to go forward and have some decent today's standard level of graphics, which is usually a big reason for the so called "casual players" to get into the SH saga, while anything else comes after getting hooked by the cool graphics. We can request for as many weird simulation features that "casual players" won't even notice, but you can't skip the graphics.

And still... there's plenty of hardware with power nowadays, why mismanage that power and let other games have it? Can't the Silent Hunters look like Crysys for example? We're not even close to that yet, but with time, we probably will be, as it is inevitable with every new iteration within the SH saga for the graphics engine to grow beyond its previous scope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by USS Sea Tiger

Did they happen to say what U-boat types would be available, I.E> Type I Type IIA Type XXIII??

also, Did they mention inwhat format the modeling would be so that we can prepare for our updates?

We'll get the basics: II, VII, IX. Anything else, is still undecided, but if a poll was held, I'd say that the XXI has the most points (I wouldn't mind that part to be occupied by a human playable DD though

).

The internal modelling format will be the widespread 3DS. The external stuff we'll see is in the GR2 format, newly made, I guess to appoint for the new changes in the graphics engine.

Cheers

EXT64 · 09-28-09, 10:58 PM

I would like to point out though that while I'm sure SH5 will require more card than SH4, looking at it from a purely memory standpoint is a mistake. Memory certainly is part of the equation, however I'd really say it is smaller than the GPU in importance. Here's why:

If you have an older GC, you probably have an older monitor as well. Older monitor probably means lower resolution. More vram is most beneficial for higher resolution displays as it needs a bigger buffer for the renders. In other words, if you have a 256MB GC, don't give up. However, if you have a very low end Graphics processor, you might want to look into saving up for a new one. Decent cards can be had in the $50 (USD) area, so while certainly not free, you are already going to spend $50 for the game, why not put equal into the computer you will be playing it on? I know of some fairly high resolution games that ran fine on a 256MB vram card at 1280x1024, so I doubt SH5 at med/low will exceed that.

THE_MASK · 09-29-09, 02:18 AM

I bet SH5 will have a minimum of 256mb graphics card ram and a recommended of 512mg graphics ram . In the end i would say 512 will be the real minimum to play with all graphic settings on high

Fluffysheap · 09-29-09, 03:18 AM

Actually, render buffer is a quite small portion of the total video memory nowadays. Texture and model data use much more memory, and these are required for model detail. The lowest sensible resolution at this point is 1280x1024, which (including 32-bit color, z-buffer, and double buffer) is only 15MB of memory.

More to the point it is uncommon to buy a 256MB video card since 2007 (and 512MB video cards were readily available in 2006, but most of the people that would buy such a card will upgrade before four years anyway). The game is released in 2010, I think it is not unreasonable to expect a video card 3 years old or newer. Today, it is possible to get a capable video card for cheap, briefly looking around I see ATI 4670 with 1GB which is a quite nice card actually for only $55... and the 4850 which is recommended for SH5 by the devs costs $100, today. You can expect these prices will have come down even more by the time the game is released!

Everyone involved in PC gaming has to just accept that periodically hardware upgrades are required, but by buying an older-model card every year or two, you will benefit from always having adequate hardware for not very much money. You will never have the latest thing but you will always have something that is adequate. (Works for other stuff too... how much is a Core 2 8000-series motherboard and CPU these days?)

elanaiba · 09-29-09, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USS Sea Tiger

On a lighter note, How does UBIsoft people feel about us modding their hard works/ game? zI ask this that in their IL-2 it is not moddable with exception of skins,
yet in SIII and SHIV it seems they deliberatly made the models crackable for us modders to further develop the program.

Silent Hunter is mainly a single player game, and modding improves its life on players computers.

Without mods, I bet people wouldn't play SH3 anymore. They do it because NYGM, GW and all othre mods have improved the game and "made it new".

IL-2, on the other hand, is much stronger on the MP side. And for MP, version compatibility, hacker protection and other such factors become much more important. And lets not forget that IL-2 has kept evolving on the developer side. I cant remember all the patches and addons I had to install in my online IL2 career (Bellum wars anyone?).

EXT64 · 09-29-09, 10:20 AM

True on the render buffer, however still I would be a bit surprised if the textures in SH5 required that much memory even with improved textures just because of the environment being rendered. Regardless, it is a fairly moot point as we are seeing as most recent cards have 512MB + or ram. However if the card has all the ram in the world but a weak GPU, it will do worse than a card with 512/256 MB ram. The main point I was trying to make was both halves of the equation should be discussed. Saying less than 512MB = fail and greater than or equal to 512MB = succeed is not really true. I know nobody said that directly, but i just wanted to make sure it was clear to all.

TheDarkWraith · 09-29-09, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffysheap

Actually, render buffer is a quite small portion of the total video memory nowadays. Texture and model data use much more memory, and these are required for model detail. The lowest sensible resolution at this point is 1280x1024, which (including 32-bit color, z-buffer, and double buffer) is only 15MB of memory.

I'm no expert in Direct X but I have played around with it. You are forgetting about the stencil buffer and maybe the developers of the game are rendering to more than one back buffer. There could be other buffers also. What about shaders? They take up video memory. But your point is correct, these buffers and shaders use a very small portion of the available video card memory.

Also in the video card discussion you need to account for what shader version it supports amid other things, Specifically what are it's capabilities? How many lights can it handle at one time? Whether this is GPU dependant or not I don't know. I just grab a Microsoft.DirectX.Direct3D.DeviceCaps structure and query what the end user's video card has or doesn't have to know what my applications and games can do based on the user's system.

gutted · 09-29-09, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USS Sea Tiger

On a lighter note, How does UBIsoft people feel about us modding their hard works/ game? zI ask this that in their IL-2 it is not moddable with exception of skins,
yet in SIII and SHIV it seems they deliberatly made the models crackable for us modders to further develop the program.

Thats because IL-2 had a huge multiplayer following. And allowing outright modification of files would not jive well. Silent Hunter is not really multiplayer oriented.

pythos · 10-01-09, 08:06 PM

No firewall, your post was inappropriate in the way you said it.

We are currently involved in a world wide recession, and many of us (including your truly) are without a job, through no fault of our own.

That being said I can see your point. I too would like a game that looks stunning, runs smooth as silk, and is a great game to play with few bugs.

Flight sim is very good at allowing lower end machines run their latest simulator. Give the player A LOT of sliders to control the level of detail rendered. As the player get the money, they can upgrade and boost the levels.

Your post however came off as elitist, eg "I can afford to upgrade my machine, to hell with everyone else that can't".

When I first read your post the terms "A^% Ho(*, came to mind, and I am sure you did not mean to draw such a thought.

karamazovnew · 10-03-09, 01:27 PM

I've played games with ugly graphics that bog down my pc (a preety good pc I might add) and I've also played games with amazing graphics that were stuck at 60 fps (i have a lcd monitor)

. We don't live in the age of Half Life anymore. I've even played a game (can't remember which) that moved just as bad at low graphics as it did at very high settings. Fortunately, SH5 is only made for the PC (I hate console ports

) so I really hope it will be well optimised. To be honest, I was never too impressed with SH4 's frame rate.

09-28-09, 11:41 AM	#183
USS Sea Tiger XO Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 425 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	For Neal a few questions if possible. Sir,, Did they happen to say what U-boat types would be available, I.E> Type I Type IIA Type XXIII?? also, Did they mention inwhat format the modeling would be so that we can prepare for our updates? On a lighter note, How does UBIsoft people feel about us modding their hard works/ game? zI ask this that in their IL-2 it is not moddable with exception of skins, yet in SIII and SHIV it seems they deliberatly made the models crackable for us modders to further develop the program.

09-28-09, 11:38 AM	#182
rosentorf A-ganger Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 76 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	No worries, captains with small PCnises... By the time the game runs smoothly you'll be able to grow a bigger one! Pimp the sht out of SH5!!! P.S.: When SH4 came out my system couldn't deal with it either. But I did not mind playing it on low settings...most of the time I am looking at the 2D-map anyway. I doubt it will be different in SH5! And since it is not a FPS I didn't mind the low frame rate too when I was peeking through the periscope. If it will be the same with SH5 so be it! It'll be just the sweeter when I finally get a faster PC to enjoy a great game* (as I am sure it will be) with top notch graphics!!!

09-28-09, 10:58 PM	#187
EXT64 Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 9 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I would like to point out though that while I'm sure SH5 will require more card than SH4, looking at it from a purely memory standpoint is a mistake. Memory certainly is part of the equation, however I'd really say it is smaller than the GPU in importance. Here's why: If you have an older GC, you probably have an older monitor as well. Older monitor probably means lower resolution. More vram is most beneficial for higher resolution displays as it needs a bigger buffer for the renders. In other words, if you have a 256MB GC, don't give up. However, if you have a very low end Graphics processor, you might want to look into saving up for a new one. Decent cards can be had in the $50 (USD) area, so while certainly not free, you are already going to spend $50 for the game, why not put equal into the computer you will be playing it on? I know of some fairly high resolution games that ran fine on a 256MB vram card at 1280x1024, so I doubt SH5 at med/low will exceed that.

09-29-09, 02:18 AM	#188
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	I bet SH5 will have a minimum of 256mb graphics card ram and a recommended of 512mg graphics ram . In the end i would say 512 will be the real minimum to play with all graphic settings on high

09-29-09, 03:18 AM	#189
Fluffysheap Bosun Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 63 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Actually, render buffer is a quite small portion of the total video memory nowadays. Texture and model data use much more memory, and these are required for model detail. The lowest sensible resolution at this point is 1280x1024, which (including 32-bit color, z-buffer, and double buffer) is only 15MB of memory. More to the point it is uncommon to buy a 256MB video card since 2007 (and 512MB video cards were readily available in 2006, but most of the people that would buy such a card will upgrade before four years anyway). The game is released in 2010, I think it is not unreasonable to expect a video card 3 years old or newer. Today, it is possible to get a capable video card for cheap, briefly looking around I see ATI 4670 with 1GB which is a quite nice card actually for only $55... and the 4850 which is recommended for SH5 by the devs costs $100, today. You can expect these prices will have come down even more by the time the game is released! Everyone involved in PC gaming has to just accept that periodically hardware upgrades are required, but by buying an older-model card every year or two, you will benefit from always having adequate hardware for not very much money. You will never have the latest thing but you will always have something that is adequate. (Works for other stuff too... how much is a Core 2 8000-series motherboard and CPU these days?)

09-29-09, 10:20 AM	#191
EXT64 Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 9 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	True on the render buffer, however still I would be a bit surprised if the textures in SH5 required that much memory even with improved textures just because of the environment being rendered. Regardless, it is a fairly moot point as we are seeing as most recent cards have 512MB + or ram. However if the card has all the ram in the world but a weak GPU, it will do worse than a card with 512/256 MB ram. The main point I was trying to make was both halves of the equation should be discussed. Saying less than 512MB = fail and greater than or equal to 512MB = succeed is not really true. I know nobody said that directly, but i just wanted to make sure it was clear to all.

10-01-09, 08:06 PM	#194
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	No firewall, your post was inappropriate in the way you said it. We are currently involved in a world wide recession, and many of us (including your truly) are without a job, through no fault of our own. That being said I can see your point. I too would like a game that looks stunning, runs smooth as silk, and is a great game to play with few bugs. Flight sim is very good at allowing lower end machines run their latest simulator. Give the player A LOT of sliders to control the level of detail rendered. As the player get the money, they can upgrade and boost the levels. Your post however came off as elitist, eg "I can afford to upgrade my machine, to hell with everyone else that can't". When I first read your post the terms "A^% Ho(*, came to mind, and I am sure you did not mean to draw such a thought.

10-03-09, 01:27 PM	#195
karamazovnew The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,403 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	I've played games with ugly graphics that bog down my pc (a preety good pc I might add) and I've also played games with amazing graphics that were stuck at 60 fps (i have a lcd monitor) . We don't live in the age of Half Life anymore. I've even played a game (can't remember which) that moved just as bad at low graphics as it did at very high settings. Fortunately, SH5 is only made for the PC (I hate console ports ) so I really hope it will be well optimised. To be honest, I was never too impressed with SH4 's frame rate.