He calls it racism...

[AVGWarhawk]

Excellent article! Please read!

Mr Obama's election was a moment of triumph for the US and a major step towards erasing the awful stain of slavery. The president himself has a nuanced, sophisticated approach to racial matters.
He is in danger, however, of allowing race to be the principal political weapon used by Democrats against Republicans. A failure to show presidential leadership by calling a halt to this folly could fuel opposition to the Obama agenda – and unpick the scab of racism just as the old wounds were beginning to heal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ack-Obama.html

[Skybird]

I cannot see that Carter was basing his racism comment on the Wilson issue exclusively, it was just the trigger. The timing, however, hardly equals a contextual, causal, exlcusive link. and nthat The WH distances itself from carter, is no surpirse, becasue they have no other option, even if they are strictly convicned that racism plays a role here. If you want to talk your poltiical oppient into a compromise over an issue, it does not help your ambition to make such sharp accusations. Maybe Obama is naive here, and I think he is, but it is much the same kind of attempted "appeasement" that has been seen from him in the Cairo speech, and his self-restraint in brandmarking Iran and northkorea anymore like it has been american policy in the years and decades before. He wants to talk with them, and maybe that is right or wrong and maybe that is appeasement indeed: but not to verbally strike at them at any possibility is the only chance for him to get them engaged in talks.

The same he wants to do with the Republicans, and tries since months, only to get every open door he offers slammed into his face. I see a pessimistic future here. The Reps do not want compromises with him that would give him successes to sell at the next elections - they want to be in his office, and him out. That'Ws why they will continue to do maximum damages to anything he tries. His hope from before the election that he could succeed in healing the post-Bush split and polarisation in american society by offering his hands even to his worst enemies in the other camp - already has been reduced to zero.

News says new fun is ahead. The missile shield has been put on ice for the immediate future.
That helps to calm relations with Russia - that scores as a strategic "good".
That pisses Czechs and Polish - that scores as "neutral", since nobody must care.
That saves money America cannot afford to spend - the obvious option if you have no money but debts: thus, "good".
That effects Iran in ways to be seen - that scores as "remains to be seen". Shield or not, the iranians would continue as they please anyway, playing for time that they need until they can all of a sudden create hard facts nobody can work around anymore.

But it violates republican policies - "very bad" in their view.

[AVGWarhawk]

I see a pessimistic future here.

Same future seen with every presidency.

News says new fun is ahead. The missile shield has been put on ice for the immediate future.
That helps to calm relations with Russia - that scores as a strategic "good".
That pisses Czechs and Polish - that scores as "neutral", since nobody must care.
That saves money America cannot afford to spend - the obvious option if you have no money but debts: thus, "good".
That effects Iran in ways to be seen - that scores as "remains to be seen". Shield or not, the iranians would continue as they please anyway, playing for time that they need until they can all of a sudden create hard facts nobody can work around anymore.

Sorry for the Polish and Czechs. Just more money Obama can have for healthcare. Still, what does this have to do with Racism? Not much other than Obama has moved on and stopped wasting time and money as Congress did taking an entire day to wrist slap Wilson. The shear stupidity of it all is astounding.

[SteamWake]

Obama says "Huh? What?"

http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/...est=latestnews

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I cannot see that Carter was basing his racism comment on the Wilson issue exclusively, it was just the trigger. The timing, however, hardly equals a contextual, causal, exlcusive link. and nthat The WH distances itself from carter, is no surpirse, becasue they have no other option, even if they are strictly convicned that racism plays a role here. If you want to talk your poltiical oppient into a compromise over an issue, it does not help your ambition to make such sharp accusations. Maybe Obama is naive here, and I think he is, but it is much the same kind of attempted "appeasement" that has been seen from him in the Cairo speech, and his self-restraint in brandmarking Iran and northkorea anymore like it has been american policy in the years and decades before. He wants to talk with them, and maybe that is right or wrong and maybe that is appeasement indeed: but not to verbally strike at them at any possibility is the only chance for him to get them engaged in talks.

The same he wants to do with the Republicans, and tries since months, only to get every open door he offers slammed into his face. I see a pessimistic future here. The Reps do not want compromises with him that would give him successes to sell at the next elections - they want to be in his office, and him out. That'Ws why they will continue to do maximum damages to anything he tries. His hope from before the election that he could succeed in healing the post-Bush split and polarisation in american society by offering his hands even to his worst enemies in the other camp - already has been reduced to zero.

The thing that you conviently seem to ignore is that Republicans do try to offer advice, alternatives or even want to discuss issues.

It is the Democrats as a whole that are trying to block Republican input into proposed plans. They are not willing to let the Republicans particpate, but are more then willing to let them have a share of the blame if it fails.

Best example is/was the discussion, or rather non-discussion about the health care reform. Even many Democrats are not sure anymore that it is such a great idea as it was proposed by Obama. Are they racist too all of a sudden? According to some of the fringe left they should be kicked out of office.

It took a lot of noise and hollering to get the Left to even hear the concerns of the Right about the proposed bill.

I am not even sure if many people really put the blame for this fiasco solely on Obama. It might be that they single him out because he proposed those plans and probably more important: He is the head of the Democratic Party.

Talk about hypcrits; Pelosi went on the record awhile ago (paraphrasing here can't remember the exact words..) saying that discent and or criticism of the Government is a patriot thing. Now, earlier this year she comes out and says discenters and critics are nazis? What the hell??

Every single person I have sofar talked too said the same damn thing: "Hell, I even like Obama, but his policies suck!"

Trying to display a fringe movement as mainstream is, IMO, intellectual dishonest and does nobody any good in any discussion.

For a change, go over to DailyKos or Democratic Underground. That's some really 'interesting' stuff, but don't forget your tinfoil hat.

I do not see you getting all up in arms about Democrats comparing Bush or Reblicans with Hitler, monkeys or whatever. Why is that? Maybe because you are biased?

You should try living in America for awhile, or visit and talk to people here, since you never did except on a forum.

I know that it changed my perception of the average American quite a bit.

[Aramike]

Regarding the display of public protest and incidents at town hall meetings, comparisons with mass murderers and war criminals, and character assassination by inking Obama's policies to Nazi death camps - here in europe you would find yourself in legal troubles for such things displayed on such scale , in several countries, no only germany. If you claim that kind of hysteric, personally most offensive behavior to be "free speech", than neither freedom nor laws battling incitement, slandering and character assassination have any meaning anymore. Freedom does not mean to bully others and behave like a wild bull in the China shop. Freedom could be used to act freely and voice once free opinion, based on argument, freely - and still behave more politely and less cheating. Bullying is no sign of freedom. It is a sign of bad manners, big mouth, and just that.

I don't disagree that some people take the issue of "free speech" too far, but I don't find this at all to be a racially motivated phenomenom. None of this kind of behavior is new and exclusive to the Obama administration - was saw plenty of it under Bush.

There is no remedy and no cure to lacking education. But not being educated can be perfectly compensated by becoming noisier than those who are.

I agree with that, but in the case of healthcare (the issue that's mostly inciting people) liberals are bringing it upon themselves due to their inconsistant accountability towards eduction.

For instance, when conservatives say that the house healthcare bill will lead to things such as death panels, illegal immigrants being covered, a singlepayer system, etc., they are ridiculed as not knowing what they are talking about. When liberals celebrate the same system due to the possibility that it is a step towards single payer (which REQUIRES rationing), they get a wink.

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That pisses Czechs and Polish - that scores as "neutral", since nobody must care.

God, you're such an arrogant and cynical S.O.B. I'm glad you're not in politics.
One poster here recently classified you as a pragmatic nationalist. In your answer, you took great exception to the "nationalist" part (of course) but accepted "pragmatic". Here's some news for you:

1. You can't tell other people what to think of you. It doesn't work like that.
2. He was only wrong on the "pragmatic" part instead. "Cynical" would be more fitting.

[Ducimus]

Politics aside, racism, does indeed exist at many levels in America, and is a lot more prevalent then most people would like to believe. Just because you don't see it or encounter it in your daily life, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've had friends effected by racism, i've encountered it in direct relation to my own person (i'm a mutt and proud of it ), ive seen blatant racism from people ive known, and i'm guilty of it myself when it comes to illegal aliens. Anyone who claims racism isn't alive and well in our country is in a state of denial.

[SteamWake]

I do not argue that racisisim exisists I see it quite often.

I do not agree that the average person attending these rallys or express disapproval of the current administration are racially motivated.

Nor do I belive Wilson's outburst was motivated by racisisim. I agree it was out of line but personally I would have had a hard time not having an outburst. I mean after all the president looks straight into the camera and lies.

Now they drag Carter into the mix and make an effin circus out of the thing with Pelosi in tears for god's sake.

Can we not get back to the issue at hand which up untill just recently had NOT been race.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Politics aside, racism, does indeed exist at many levels in America, and is a lot more prevalent then most people would like to believe. Just because you don't see it or encounter it in your daily life, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've had friends effected by racism, i've encountered it in direct relation to my own person (i'm a mutt and proud of it ), ive seen blatant racism from people ive known, and i'm guilty of it myself when it comes to illegal aliens. Anyone who claims racism isn't alive and well in our country is in a state of denial.

I dont completely agree with this. Indeed, there is racism, but it's not more prevalent than people believe - in fact, I believe the opposite to be true. Just look at this week's events. People were so busy TRYING to find racism that the actual issues were swept aside in many regards.

The bottom line is, sure, there is racism, and its a phenomenom not attached to any particular cultural group. But, the actionable symptoms of racism are no where NEAR as prevalent as they used to be.

And that's what matters.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

I do not argue that racisisim exisists I see it quite often.

I do not agree that the average person attending these rallys or express disapproval of the current administration are racially motivated.

Nor do I belive Wilson's outburst was motivated by racisisim. I agree it was out of line but personally I would have had a hard time not having an outburst. I mean after all the president looks straight into the camera and lies.

Now they drag Carter into the mix and make an effin circus out of the thing with Pelosi in tears for god's sake.

Can we not get back to the issue at hand which up untill just recently had NOT been race.

This

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Aramike

I dont completely agree with this. Indeed, there is racism, but it's not more prevalent than people believe - in fact, I believe the opposite to be true.
.....snip....

But, the actionable symptoms of racism are no where NEAR as prevalent as they used to be.
.

Only because being openly racist is as unpolitically correct as you can get in todays society. To be openly racist, would discredit everything one would have to say. However, gagging the opinion, doesn't make the opinion go away. I have lots of stories about seeing racism in places and ways i didn't expect to see it, but i don't expect relating those experiences is going to sway any opinion on this matter. ( that said, I know more then a few people who voted for McCain, PURELY for the reason that they didn't want to see a N****** in the Whitehouse..)

The main reason i respond to this thread at all, is this dismissive attitude to racism by some posts in this thread, which strikes me as unrealistic. Now I'm not saying every political opponent, or any sizeable percentage thereof to the Obama administration is racially motivated, but i am saying racial bigotry in the US is more common then most people think, or would like to acknowledge.

[August]

And I know more than a few people who voted for Obama precisely because he was black. Which is the more racist?

[FIREWALL]

Mud Slinging and Muddying the Waters are Political tools.

Calling someone a big dumda** White Cracker just doesn't make the press.

[Ducimus]

>>And I know more than a few people who voted for Obama precisely because he was black. Which is the more racist?

Racism isn't, nor ever, has been confined to just one ethnic group of people. It's in many places, and more common then most think. Thanks for illustrating my point.