The proposed health care bill thread (merged)

[AVGWarhawk]

Let start with why the US health system gets lower grades than the world. We shall start with the self indulgent individual:




Obesity. Just one of many self imposed health risks encounter in the US. This one of many that help account for longer stays and treatment, poor outcomes in recovery. Living healthy starts at home. If you think this bill will flip a switch and provide excellent healthcare and better outcomes you will be let down. The mentality of healthy living needs to be changed before any of that will happen. That will take years upon years to change that attitude. Not sure if these are taken into account on the surveys you offered up Mookie.

[Sea Demon]

Mods delete. Combined with next post. Sorry.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

How old is she? Is she in good health?

Its her right to not carry health care it is available if she wanted it.

Under the proposed plan you have no 'rights' you pay into the plan (if your working) regardless of age, health, nationality, etc.

I also have to ask....does she have a cell phone? What kind of car does she drive? Is she financing it? Cable TV plan? Satellite TV? You get what I'm driving at? If healthcare is so damn important to these people, they better not have any kind of luxuries before they fund a healthplan for themselves. Otherwise I don't want to hear the sob stories.

And Steamwake, your last statement is why I think those who choose private health insurance should be able to opt out completely from any government plan including funding it. The government option would force people to pay twice.

Originally Posted by Max2147

I've never seen a study that showed anything else, and I come from a family of doctors. That article was actually more optimistic about our system than I'm used to hearing. The article said that we spend twice as much per capita on health for worse results. The numbers I usually hear are three to five times as much per capita, again for worse results.

Just doesn't jibe from experience. My daughter's orthopedic surgeon and our family practice physician would both certainly give you an earful though about government run health and the problems with it.

You get that anywhere. Even in a European-style single-payer system you're free to buy a private plan. Very few people do so because the government system works well.

OK. Like I said, have your European style "single payer" healthcare. And you and others like you pay for it. Those who opt out shouldn't fund it as they are already paying health insurance premiums for themselves through private plans. That's the only way it wouldn't infringe on people who want choice in health care. You couldn't convince me otherwise. Your healthcare is your responsibility Max...not mine, not the government's, and not the taxpayer's.

[TDK1044]

This is all part of a cleverly constructed plan by the Democrats to create a Government dependent population. Once people know that they can always look to Government to assist them with just about everything, then it will be nearly impossible for the Republicans to get elected in the future.

Obama is really trying to create an 'assisted living' environment for the majority of our citizens. Look at Government ownership in the Banking industry and the Motor industry and you start to see where they are going.

If this is what most people in the US want then so be it, but don't then stand there with your flag on July 4th and proclaim how grateful you are to be free, because you're giving up that precious freedom and replacing it with bigger Government and security.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

If this is what most people in the US want then so be it, but don't then stand there with your flag on July 4th and proclaim how grateful you are to be free, because you're giving up that precious freedom and replacing it with bigger Government and security.

As opposed to our current system of tyranny of the corporation? No thanks. At least I can vote my government out if I don't like the way things are going.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

This is all part of a cleverly constructed plan by the Democrats to create a Government dependent population. Once people know that they can always look to Government to assist them with just about everything, then it will be nearly impossible for the Republicans to get elected in the future.

Obama is really trying to create an 'assisted living' environment for the majority of our citizens. Look at Government ownership in the Banking industry and the Motor industry and you start to see where they are going.

If this is what most people in the US want then so be it, but don't then stand there with your flag on July 4th and proclaim how grateful you are to be free, because you're giving up that precious freedom and replacing it with bigger Government and security.

Guess where people without health care go when they are sick or injured. A doctor's office? No, they go to the local hospital ER and pay nothing. Now guess who foots the bill.

Buddahaid

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Guess where people without health care go when they are sick or injured. A doctor's office? No, they go to the local hospital ER and pay nothing. Now guess who foots the bill.

Buddahaid

Yes, current insurance holders pay about $1600.00/year for the uninsured. Will the healthcare plan by Obama eliminate that? I would say no because even though the plan is available for all does not mean all will sign up. Will the hosptitals and doctors have free reign to put in a claim on a person that has not participated in the program but received medical treatment. Nope(to much open door for corruption) so, not only do current insurance holders still cover that asspect but they are forced to pay into the system as well.

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

As opposed to our current system of tyranny of the corporation? No thanks. At least I can vote my government out if I don't like the way things are going.

You understand the Electoral College system and how it works, right?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

You understand the Electoral College system and how it works, right?

Very well, thank you. However legislation originates in Congress.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yes, current insurance holders pay about $1600.00/year for the uninsured. Will the healthcare plan by Obama eliminate that? I would say no because even though the plan is available for all does not mean all will sign up. Will the hosptitals and doctors have free reign to put in a claim on a person that has not participated in the program but received medical treatment. Nope(to much open door for corruption) so, not only do current insurance holders still cover that asspect but they are forced to pay into the system as well.

A visit to the ER for a non life threatening injury involving a couple of x-ray images will cost about $2,000.00 to $3,000.00, even if there are no broken bones. We need a system that gives people who can't afford insurance somewhere to go other than the ER. This plan will have faults and will need much tweeking, but the current system is also expensive due to situations like the above, and the lack of latitude given doctors to treat patients in order to fit the insurance coding. Not to mention the gold digging lawyers fighting for the compensation you really "don't" deserve.

Buddahaid

Centrist Dem Leader: Has Committee Votes To Block Health Bill

U.S. Rep. Ross, D-Ark., a leader of fiscally conservative House Democrats, said Wednesday........

"Last time I checked, it takes seven Democrats to stop a bill in the Energy and Commerce Committee," Ross told reporters after a House vote. "We had seven against it last Friday; we have 10 today."

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-mar...ck-health-bill

It didn't take long to run into an "uh-oh" moment when reading the House's "health care for all Americans" bill. Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...aspx?id=482329

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Very well, thank you. However legislation originates in Congress.

and sometimes from the bench

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

As opposed to our current system of tyranny of the corporation? No thanks. At least I can vote my government out if I don't like the way things are going.

And just how is any corporation imposing tyranny upon you mookie? The thing is, you need not buy their products or services if you feel so oppressed by them. They can't make you patronize their goods or services(like government), nor can they levy taxes (such as health care taxes) to make people who work, give up some of their liberty or property for others (like government can do).

TDK1044 is correct. If government mandated health care is what you want, if you believe individual taxpayers should be paying for you and your health care, July 4th is not your holiday. You have no business celebrating Liberty when your goal is to infringe on the liberty of others. Washington, Jefferson, and Adams are not a part of your heritage. You may want to be reliant and fearful of government mookie, but some of us actually crave freedom and prefer personal responsibility, and the freedom of choices which come with it. My personal liberty and property is non-negotiable for me. People need to have a sense of responsibility for themselves and their own healthcare. I am merely responsible for me and my own family. And each taxpayer is responsible unto themselves accordingly.

Screw your government run healthcare if it infringes on my liberty. And as things look....it does.

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Centrist Dem Leader: Has Committee Votes To Block Health Bill

Nice to see some barriers to this stuff starting to form.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

I also have to ask....does she have a cell phone? What kind of car does she drive? Is she financing it? Cable TV plan? Satellite TV? You get what I'm driving at? If healthcare is so damn important to these people, they better not have any kind of luxuries before they fund a healthplan for themselves. Otherwise I don't want to hear the sob stories.

Exactly.

And I'm amazed that so many people feel they should be able to spend their money as they choose and live their lifestyle as they choose (drinking, drugs, overweight, smoking) and yet they expect someone to provide health care for them.

And we are already paying $$ for Medicaid/Medicare, which I never used.

I think the system we have is very good, I have never had anything to complain about at all, regarding my hospital stays, doctor visits, etc.

Guess where people without health care go when they are sick or injured. A doctor's office? No, they go to the local hospital ER and pay nothing. Now guess who foots the bill.

Agreed, we do need to do something to get all the peop,e who are reluctant to take care of their responsibilties towards health care and who cost hospitals money. Let's have a health care system where you pay into it and you are covered, and you can opt out of coverage and paying if you provide your own coverage.