Here it comes ! House eyes new taxes as senators pare health bill

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Neither of which would ever happen under our glorious HMO system, right?

Id venture to say no. Most assuredly no.

In fact even those whom cannot pay recieve care thats one of the reasons health care costs are so high.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Id venture to say no. Most assuredly no.

In fact even those whom cannot pay recieve care thats one of the reasons health care costs are so high.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22357873/

That was one story I remember. There's thousands more.

[Aramike]

I might surprise some people with my opinion on this, but here goes:

I am in favor on nationalized health care.

There, I said it. Now for the reasons why.

Anyone who thinks that we don't already have nationalized healthcare is fooling themselves. In the US we have two issues which demonstrate this. First is the Patient Bill of Rights which allows ANYONE access to healthcare without payment. As such, a great many people show up at emergency rooms nationwide for free attention to their sore throats knowing that they'll just ignore the subsequent bills. Secondly, nearly every state in the country has completely subsidized healthcare programs for the "poor", in addition to Medicaid. This often means that the least productive members of society actually find themselves with more disposable income that some in the middle class. Think about it: someone relatively healthy pulling in $18,000/year on welfare can be quite a bit better off than someone making $30k but has to provide their own $1200/month coverage because of a pre-existing condition (I'm not making this up, actually - my father-in-law is faced with a very similar situation after losing his job recently. Fortunately we can help him out, but not everyone is so lucky).

Indeed, I've heard the horror stories about the waiting times for important surgeries in nations with socialized healthcare. I believe that allowing independent insurance coverage as an option would SOMEWHAT help to alleviate that problem.

The problem I see with attempting to make the healthcare industry free-market is that it really can't be such a thing. In my opinion, people HAVE to be entitled to some measure of healthcare.

Our healthcare system is absolutely broken. We currently have a system that absolutely overburdens the middle class. Think about it: if you're poor you've got a free ticket to one of the most expensive cost-of-living items there is. If you're rich than this really won't affect you.

But, if you happen to fall into the category of the middle class family paying your mortgage, credit card bills, etc. on time, a major issue can send even the insured individual to the poorhouse with a high deductable. Imagine if you just lost your job, however - now the "class warfare" system of healthcare has just sent you to the lower class. Either that, or you'll be doing without urgent medications and treatments.

I personally hate to ever relinquish control of anything to the government, but honestly I don't trust insurance companies a whole lot more.

I do have a proposal for how to fix healthcare in the US, but I'm kind of getting tired at the moment. Maybe tomorrow...

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22357873/

That was one story I remember. There's thousands more.

Thousands?

The family of a 17-year-old girl who died hours after her health insurer reversed a decision and said it would pay for a liver transplant plans to sue the company, their attorney said Friday.

The fact that this landed in a lawsuit indicates it is an abboration.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Thousands?



The fact that this landed in a lawsuit indicates it is an abboration.

It's in the insurance company's best interest to deny care as they are a for profit business. Their interests and yours as the insured's are not aligned.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

It's in the insurance company's best interest to deny care as they are a for profit business. Their interests and yours as the insured's are not aligned.

And you think a pencil pusher on the Hill that has as much a medical background as you and I really has an interest in your care? The government does not care about your healthcare. Look at the VA for that. What a disgrace the VA is. Walter Reed was a crying shame. Yeah, Washington gives a crap about you. That is laughable at best. Obama already stated he would eliminate tests for what they consider unnecessary. That is great, no need to go with the doctors recommendations. We will listen to Will the page and see what he thinks right after fetching some paperwork for Senator Beanhead.

Again, medicare is a failing system for the elderly....do think this nationalized healthcare is going to work The VA hospitals are medicre at best. Walter Reed was a crying shame.

What everyone needs to worry about at the moment is this new energy bill. Do you realize your living expenses are going to go up between $2000.00-$4000.00 per year if this bill passes? Pelosi is pushing this bill this week. Good luck to us if this bill passes and you throw in healthcare for all on top of. In short gents, we are hosed. We are about to be taxed to the hilt. Grab your ankles, this is going to hurt for a good long while.

Obama and his cronies are destroying the country in the name of being a 'do gooder'. It is being done at your expense and my expense. Heres to the victory garden at the White House.

[AVGWarhawk]

http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...mQ0ZGFkODM0YzI

The President Tries to Change His Health-Care Tune [James C. Capretta]


At his press conference today, President Obama scrambled to “clarify” his promise to Americans on health care. It won’t work.

The problem for President Obama is that he and his allies want to pass an untested, government-heavy program — but without saying so.

The president’s “clarification” seems highly unlikely to be the final word on this. For starters, it doesn’t matter much to the voting public who pulls the trigger. They don’t want today’s stable, job-based coverage turned upside by “reform.” When they hear that tens of millions of people will get moved out of employer plans and into the “government option,” they will wonder if they themselves will have to switch insurance — and most don’t want to. The president’s comments today aren’t likely to put their fears to rest.

It is a good article. Read it.

[SteamWake]

To help balance its budget, California has reduced the state tax credit for dependents.

Yea try to explain that to the parents.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BUN418BJU3.DTL

[SteamWake]

While everyone is 'discussing' health care watch out for this little bill to be voted on this friday.

Cap & Trade

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123655590609066021.html

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

And you think a pencil pusher on the Hill that has as much a medical background as you and I really has an interest in your care? The government does not care about your healthcare.

It seems to work for every other civilized nation in the world.

[Tchocky]

Krugman put it rather well -

The reform argument actually goes like this: 1. Every other advanced country has universal coverage, protecting its citizens from the financial risks of uninsurance as well as ensuring that everyone gets basic care.
2. They do this while spending far less on health care than we do.
3. Yet they don’t seem to do worse in overall health results.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

It seems to work for every other civilized nation in the world.

You don't understand something, this is forced on us. There is not take your healthcare plan if you like it. Every year those outside of the plan will have to staple on their returns a paper that looks like a W2 so you can be taxed on it. Furthermore, your choice of doctors and treatment are limited not to mention the time for Joe the Pencil Pusher do decide with his History BA what kind of treatment is best for you. To further that notion, reduced cost/charges reduces individuals that are in the medical field and or interested in the medical field. So, when you are in the hospital and ring the nurse for help at midnight you might see one as early as 0400. Seriously, would anyone spend 22 years of schooling, another 4 years of medical school and internship to make minimum wage? And, to add, no one in Congress has to join this. They keep what they have. What, is not what is good for the goose not good for the gander? If the plan was so good the entire congressional body would be the first to sign up. They can do whatever they want with whatever doctor they wish. Sorry, bad PR.

I agree we need reform but this reform is way to radical. It will burn like Hillary's bill did.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

While everyone is 'discussing' health care watch out for this little bill to be voted on this friday.

Cap & Trade

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123655590609066021.html

Agreed, this bill has some momentum and it could turn very ugly for ALL. Imagine, your nice $100.00 electric bill for the month will become $250.00 for the month. Energy cost will skyrocket under this lame bill. Such BS on this bill and loaded with earmarks. Now, we all know who is paying for the trillion dollar stimulus. Sure, we will raise the taxes on those making $250,000.00 per year. Spit in the bucket.