Anyone else ever feel guilty?

[kiwikapitan]

I saw a great doco on the History channel last night Sink The Bismarck. One of the 3 survivors of the Hood Ted Briggs said he felt bad for the poor souls on the Bismarck as he had gone through the same harrowing thing when the Hood blew up. Amazing story of his survival. A miracle anybody survived when she went down.

And even with a u-boat nearby she still can't be saved (hypothetical single mission).

[She-Wolf]

Several of you have mentioned that it would be desirable to see lifeboats coming from a sinking ship in GWX... well, there IS a mod for lifeboats and debris available. Works fine in GWX2, not yet tried it in GWX3....

[Hitman]

I'm English and the first time I got into firing position on a merchant in stock SH3, I looked at St George's Cross and couldn't bring myself to hit the fire button! It's the first time anything like that has happened to me in a video game, and I've played a lot.

Despite being spanish myself, I was educated in a german school and have been all my life in touch with germans, learning to apreciate their good points while also being critic about their bad ones. But one thing that has struck me always is that I have so far been unable to play in wargames against the german side, I feel always bad when shooting at something or someone from germany and simply stop enjoying the game. Now I have started since last year to learn russian (A culture I have always loved and admired) and to get in touch with russians, and I'm beginning to feel the same when playing IL2 with german planes I hate to bring down a russian aircraft.

Interestingly, I have been speaking english for ages and have met englishmen and americans which I appreciate a lot, but I never felt guilty about sinking british ships in SH3 :hmm: Somehow with anglosaxons I don't get that Pavlov's dog effect of relating a sunk virtual british merchant with damaging the people and culture I have learned so much to appreciate. Also, I have never been bothered about killing spanish soldiers and/or destroying spanish units in wargames or 3D shooters, despite having myself a legion of spanish soldiers in my family

[Red Heat]

My personaly view about the game its this, my first objective in the game (in every version of the GWX) its to reach my warpatrol goal, second its to destroy enemy merchant ships, third capital ships...destroyers only if they are between me and my objective...if not i avoid the desnecessary combat...

About sinking enemy ships of course i know for every sinking ship will be a nunber of lost of lives...but they are the enemy wich they are organize to destroy my country, my village, my friends, my family...and the only thing wich can do the diference its because im between them and the enemy...if every man do her job correctly this invisible line between live and death it will be larger...and the away to peace shorter...the big question every one are prepared to follow orders with out question? I dont think so...for that its necessary a complete a extensive military trainning wich came to my mind, SH3 GWX its only a very good game about W.W. II, OR THE BEST OF HIS KIND!

[B.N.R.T.]

Although I don't play SH3 much anymore lately, I did feel some sense of guilt when I sunk a ship. I have to think about a Dutch writer named Jan de Hartog in a book about a tug-boat captain or crew in WWII. In particular a scene where he described people in the icy cold waters, covered in oil and screaming for help. They were completely covered in black, sticky oil and their screaming mouths were pink holes. I don't remember the title of the book, perhaps someone else does.

So yes, I do think about the lives that were lost (on both sides) in the U-boat war but still remember it's only a game and I'm not killing anyone myself.

[Freiwillige]

I feel no guilt. Thats not to say that I do not play as humanly as possible. All this talk about killing and machine gunning and goose stepping Nazi's not caring about how many lungs get filled with salt water is a load of ^$(@

The vast majority of the Unterseebootwaffe did what they could to help the stricken sailers untill it bacame too dangerous and they had strict orders from B.d.u. not to. Even in GWX 3.0 I got a radio message informing me to take aboard all merchant crews. Only later in the war when merchants armed themselves did the U-boats stop providing aid. It was about the stopping of supplies not about how many sailors you can kill. After all many merchants were civilians.

To kill a ship is a beautifull thing, to knowingly and willingly kill the crew....not so much.

[PBV]

I don't feel guilt, but I would not conciously shoot at survivors. Onkel Karl hired me to sink tonnage, not kill sailors. Sailors can be replaced in any seaside tavern, ships cannot, so I'd rather just use my ammo to sink those precious tons....

[Ping Panther]

From B.N.R.T.;

"I have to think about a Dutch writer named Jan de Hartog in a book about a tug-boat captain or crew in WWII. In particular a scene where he described people in the icy cold waters, covered in oil and screaming for help. They were completely covered in black, sticky oil and their screaming mouths were pink holes. I don't remember the title of the book, perhaps someone else does."

The author is Hartog and the novel is "The Captain", 1967... Much of it about convoy PQ-17. It's a good book. I haven't seen it in a long time. I would like to get sometime & somewhere. Thanks for bringing up the thought of it for me again.

[kiwikapitan]

Heh it seems I resurrected an old thread.

I feel no guilt when sinking ships. It's just a game after all and there are no real men onboard them anyway!. However, if there was a 3D mini-game whereby there were real sailors (not the lifeboats mod which sometimes spawns when ship sink) that you could machine gun, I would feel very immoral doing that.

I used to play the Combat Mission 3D wargame CMBB and I would really feel for my men when they went down and it's the same in SH3 if I have a crew death or worse loss of sub with all hands I feel bad for my virtual family.

I have British ancestry and yet I have no problem being German in my computer games. Sink 'em all!

[BasilY]

Originally Posted by yamato9

OK, i´m not british guy but seeing in some mods how sailors blow up in the air, well maybe this is interesting but also in some aspect of the game is also coold blooded or cruel. Some lifeboats near sinking ship will be realy helpfull.

I´v newer installed mod with DOLPHINS in my game just because same reason.

IN REAL LIFE: Watch on animals,trees and plants, they are true treasure of the world.

I will recommend Zoo Tycoon (the complete version is the best) for you... Ah, all that wishy-washy feeling.

[Brag]

Originally Posted by Ping Panther

From B.N.R.T.;

The author is Hartog and the novel is "The Captain", 1967... Much of it about convoy PQ-17. It's a good book. I haven't seen it in a long time. I would like to get sometime & somewhere. Thanks for bringing up the thought of it for me again.

An excellent book, I recommend it

[hewsu]

For me the enjoyment of sinking ships came from Aces of the Deep. You aimed, you shot and looked the ship sink in a "yay I got another one" way that looked somewhat realistic but still very "gamey".

In SH3 the way ships sink is way much more realistic. It easy to imagine crews on the burning, exploding and sinking decks. Personally I feel guilty after every ship sunk, even if I had to go trough a hell to sink it. Like earlier mentioned you sink ships not men. Soon after I also remember that I am a captain of the u-boot and start to think of my own safety, submerging away from the scene because I can't do anything for the enemy crew on water.

But I also enjoy this feeling of guilt, its a bit like watching a war movie and realising what war really is. We people tend to forget it very easily. There is also a certaint aspect of glory assosiated with war which war games usually manage to express very well. Wars in RL are far from this glorified image and I don't think we should ever try to simulate war in this form.

[Keelbuster]

Originally Posted by TomcatMVD

I feel quite bad about the merchies' cew, having some lifeboats fleeing away form the sinking ship would be nice... it would help that tiny bit of humanity some of us have, anyways... I gues they deserve it for playing on the wrong team
Regarding DD's or BB's crews, after I read a couple of U-boats sinking reports, and how they would shoot with sidearms at anyone trying to get out of the sub, yeah, they pretty much deserve my merciless hunting.

I feel the same way about merchants. Sometimes it just doesn't seem fair. With warships, on the other hand, it's open season. If there's a cruiser in a convoy, I always sink it first, merchants second. But, orders are orders, i guess...