ai radar/visual issue or my install ?

Palindromeria · 03-27-06, 03:37 PM

so, im at radio depth, peri radio and esm up.
gettin all kinds of esm reports.
i kinda thought the esm buzz at peri meant i had better minimize my exposure or they will paint me.. apparently not...
see an ugly lookin wake i am creating at 5 kts.
can even send a guy out to shoot at aircraft.

yet ai does not seem to "see" me or get even a tiny radar blip on me.
they seem to have no clue im there even after ive shot down helo.

ive reinstalled and it still ocurrs.

so

what am i not understanding ?

LuftWolf · 03-27-06, 04:30 PM

Yep, masts are not detectable by AI and sails are marginal.

Known issue. Reported to SCS. Not fixed... not going to be.

We all want this one, but it's techincally too difficult to backward enabled in the game, at least that's my theory, SCS has said nothing at all about this for the nine months or so it's been known.

goldorak · 03-27-06, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Known issue. Reported to SCS. Not fixed... not going to be.

Why do you say its not going to be fixed, are you privy to some kind of insider information we poor mortals don't know ?

LuftWolf · 03-27-06, 05:51 PM

No.

But knowing the database and how it relates to the NavalSimEngine gives a big clue...

Any change to the game that means the database has to be restructured in any way is not going to happen until the NEXT version of DW or whatever game SCS makes or liscenses using the NSE.

Making masts detectable by radar would mean the database would have to be restructured, so it's not going to happen for this version of the game.

I'm 95% sure of this.

Palindromeria · 03-27-06, 07:15 PM

that explains why the helos stay in their pattern and
keep dropping sonobuoys as i shoot em down.

thanks

does human opponent at least SEE wake or partial peri / masts / sail above the waterline if in a binoc or pilot view ??

ai does not get visual on this ?

Molon Labe · 03-27-06, 07:53 PM

A human opponent will see the sail and the wake, but not any masts. (Just like a human opponent can't see what weapons are on the P-3's wings or which missile is loaded on the one-arm-bandit)

goldorak · 03-27-06, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

No.

Making masts detectable by radar would mean the database would have to be restructured, so it's not going to happen for this version of the game.

I'm 95% sure of this.

This is not good news

, oh well time to let go of the air units and concentrate my tactics on subs and the frigate.

LuftWolf · 03-28-06, 02:00 AM

Well, if the military can live without it, then I figure we can too.

OKO · 03-28-06, 02:11 AM

Anyway, real masts are made in composite ... to avoid radar detection
So it's not really a big deal ...
Real masts should be quite hard to detect with radars, even at close range, and especially in bad sea.

... And in DW, conning tower will be always detected after some radar sweeps (say 5 to 7 ...).
Even at more than 10 miles, an OHP could detect and engage with SM2 an imprudent who stay too long with conning tower out of the water.

I already sunk some subs like this ... and been sunk like this ...

Dr.Sid · 03-28-06, 02:41 AM

I've never been shot at with just tower outside the water. I do that all the time.

OKO · 03-28-06, 03:02 AM

probably because your opponent were not aware they could do this.
It happen to me so many times, I'm absolutly sure you could see a conning tower emerged if the player stay too much emerged.

I should have sunk dozen of KILO like this, with SM2

Another thing that makes me sure of this, it's because I requested it on beta test, and SCS implement not only radar, but also visual detection (at shorter range) on conning tower emerged.

It's very easy to test yourself on a short edited scenario.
need 2 minutes to do.

Dr.Sid · 03-28-06, 07:20 AM

Will try .. problem can be that AI helos tries to drop torpedo too close to you .. and I usualy manage to shoot them down before they do. So it can be that they 'see' me, but don't drop anyway.

Molon Labe · 03-28-06, 08:40 AM

I think the two of you are talking past each other. The AI either does not, or does a poor job of, detecting exposed sails, but human opponents can pick these up on radar and target them quite easily. Make sure you're testing the same thing (or both).

OKO · 03-28-06, 10:08 AM

Yes, that's true I'm only talking about MP games, so against humans ...
as I play 90% of time on MP (only tests at single player)
I don't know, in fact, what happen against AI aircrafts ......

Dr.Sid · 03-28-06, 10:15 AM

Gee .. where do you all get time for multiplayer ?

03-27-06, 03:37 PM	#1
Palindromeria Planesman Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 199 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	ai radar/visual issue or my install ? so, im at radio depth, peri radio and esm up. gettin all kinds of esm reports. i kinda thought the esm buzz at peri meant i had better minimize my exposure or they will paint me.. apparently not... see an ugly lookin wake i am creating at 5 kts. can even send a guy out to shoot at aircraft. yet ai does not seem to "see" me or get even a tiny radar blip on me. they seem to have no clue im there even after ive shot down helo. ive reinstalled and it still ocurrs. so what am i not understanding ?

03-27-06, 04:30 PM	#2
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Yep, masts are not detectable by AI and sails are marginal. Known issue. Reported to SCS. Not fixed... not going to be. We all want this one, but it's techincally too difficult to backward enabled in the game, at least that's my theory, SCS has said nothing at all about this for the nine months or so it's been known. __________________ LW

03-27-06, 05:51 PM	#4
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	No. But knowing the database and how it relates to the NavalSimEngine gives a big clue... Any change to the game that means the database has to be restructured in any way is not going to happen until the NEXT version of DW or whatever game SCS makes or liscenses using the NSE. Making masts detectable by radar would mean the database would have to be restructured, so it's not going to happen for this version of the game. I'm 95% sure of this. __________________ LW

03-27-06, 07:53 PM	#6
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	A human opponent will see the sail and the wake, but not any masts. (Just like a human opponent can't see what weapons are on the P-3's wings or which missile is loaded on the one-arm-bandit) __________________

03-28-06, 02:00 AM	#8
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Well, if the military can live without it, then I figure we can too. __________________ LW

03-27-06, 07:15 PM	#5
Palindromeria Planesman Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 199 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	that explains why the helos stay in their pattern and keep dropping sonobuoys as i shoot em down. thanks does human opponent at least SEE wake or partial peri / masts / sail above the waterline if in a binoc or pilot view ?? ai does not get visual on this ?

03-28-06, 02:11 AM	#9
OKO Commander Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Solar system, mainly on earth Posts: 476 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Anyway, real masts are made in composite ... to avoid radar detection So it's not really a big deal ... Real masts should be quite hard to detect with radars, even at close range, and especially in bad sea. ... And in DW, conning tower will be always detected after some radar sweeps (say 5 to 7 ...). Even at more than 10 miles, an OHP could detect and engage with SM2 an imprudent who stay too long with conning tower out of the water. I already sunk some subs like this ... and been sunk like this ...

03-28-06, 02:41 AM	#10
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I've never been shot at with just tower outside the water. I do that all the time.

03-28-06, 03:02 AM	#11
OKO Commander Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Solar system, mainly on earth Posts: 476 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	probably because your opponent were not aware they could do this. It happen to me so many times, I'm absolutly sure you could see a conning tower emerged if the player stay too much emerged. I should have sunk dozen of KILO like this, with SM2 Another thing that makes me sure of this, it's because I requested it on beta test, and SCS implement not only radar, but also visual detection (at shorter range) on conning tower emerged. It's very easy to test yourself on a short edited scenario. need 2 minutes to do.

03-28-06, 07:20 AM	#12
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Will try .. problem can be that AI helos tries to drop torpedo too close to you .. and I usualy manage to shoot them down before they do. So it can be that they 'see' me, but don't drop anyway.

03-28-06, 08:40 AM	#13
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	I think the two of you are talking past each other. The AI either does not, or does a poor job of, detecting exposed sails, but human opponents can pick these up on radar and target them quite easily. Make sure you're testing the same thing (or both). __________________

03-28-06, 10:08 AM	#14
OKO Commander Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Solar system, mainly on earth Posts: 476 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Yes, that's true I'm only talking about MP games, so against humans ... as I play 90% of time on MP (only tests at single player) I don't know, in fact, what happen against AI aircrafts ......

03-28-06, 10:15 AM	#15
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Gee .. where do you all get time for multiplayer ?