about Crash, zero-sized 3d-objects, index and shadows in Dat-files

Hebe Vollmaus · 11-19-23, 04:04 PM

Hi there,
for some reason i would like to stop modding and try to play again a Campaign from 1939 on to the end in 1945.
But my game does not allow this!

In the middle of 1942 i stumbled over a Ship that crashes the game to desktop. Modding may be an endless-loop. LOL
I created a Training-Mission with that ship only to be shure the reason is this ship. Whenever i hit the target with my heavy-shells the game crashed. So with the help of "Silent 3ditor" (S3D) looked into its Dat-file. Found a bunch of zero-sized 3D-objects. Filled these 3Ds with something real. And the game nolonger crashes.
Really annoying, since the zero-sized 3D-objects allone should not be the problem, as there are some other files around which use these things for good. For example for fake-funnels or rudders.
I expanded mySH3-TooL to detect these Zero3Ds. On the way i found five Dat-files which S3D cannot open. Three of them had bad index-lenght. So added this to detect also indexes to my tool. What can i say... Almost all Dat-files in my SH3-install had bad indexes. Checked the original unmodified SH3 files - all are ok, and there are no zero-sized 3D-objects. As my game-install runs otherwise good, these indexes seems to be useless to the game.
For the long story short, i deleted all indexes i can find. Also allmost all Shadows (SHD, DynamicShadowCast, DynamicShadow), and useless (unfinished/forgotten) zero-sized 3D-object. The game looks the same, as it does not use DynamicShadows anyway.
SH3\data is a little more then 4GB. Saves little less then 60MB. Maybe not worth doing so. But now i have 3800 unused 3D-objects less.

Greetings.

FUBAR295 · 11-19-23, 05:04 PM

Hebe,

Interesting post. It may not help with the size but the loading time may be a bit faster, hopefully. There is a lot of junk and repetitive files taking up memory and adding to load times. I think Fifi and AlexOne have done a great job getting rid of unneeded stuff.

I use your tool, it's great!

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Fifi · 11-20-23, 07:06 AM

Yes, tons of unnecessary or not working things everywhere in this game

Actually revising MFM ships, and had surprises with their 3D model… don’t know where they come from, but plenty weird things too

Mister_M · 11-20-23, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hebe Vollmaus

Hi there,
for some reason i would like to stop modding and try to play again a Campaign from 1939 on to the end in 1945.
But my game does not allow this!

In the middle of 1942 i stumbled over a Ship that crashes the game to desktop. Modding may be an endless-loop. LOL
I created a Training-Mission with that ship only to be shure the reason is this ship. Whenever i hit the target with my heavy-shells the game crashed. So with the help of "Silent 3ditor" (S3D) looked into its Dat-file. Found a bunch of zero-sized 3D-objects. Filled these 3Ds with something real. And the game nolonger crashes.
Really annoying, since the zero-sized 3D-objects allone should not be the problem, as there are some other files around which use these things for good. For example for fake-funnels or rudders.
I expanded mySH3-TooL to detect these Zero3Ds. On the way i found five Dat-files which S3D cannot open. Three of them had bad index-lenght. So added this to detect also indexes to my tool. What can i say... Almost all Dat-files in my SH3-install had bad indexes. Checked the original unmodified SH3 files - all are ok, and there are no zero-sized 3D-objects. As my game-install runs otherwise good, these indexes seems to be useless to the game.
For the long story short, i deleted all indexes i can find. Also allmost all Shadows (SHD, DynamicShadowCast, DynamicShadow), and useless (unfinished/forgotten) zero-sized 3D-object. The game looks the same, as it does not use DynamicShadows anyway.
SH3\data is a little more then 4GB. Saves little less then 60MB. Maybe not worth doing so. But now i have 3800 unused 3D-objects less.

Greetings.

Hi Hebe Vollmaus,

1. Is it possible to automatically remove all the useless SHD nodes with your tool?

2. What is a "bad index"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi

Yes, tons of unnecessary or not working things everywhere in this game

Actually revising MFM ships, and had surprises with their 3D model… don’t know where they come from, but plenty weird things too

Le Diable est dans les détails... (the Devil is in the detail)...

propbeanie · 11-20-23, 10:25 AM

I think he is referring to the S3D index:

As usual though, I could well be wrong... lol - Some of what Hebe found is from the hex-editing days. Silent3Ditor will not let you save a dat file without first updating the index, which it does automatically when you save, or you can initiate it yourself. S3D also does ID checks and will let you know if there are conflicts there. None of that functionality is available with hex-editing. That is up to the user. The empty 3D objects are also part of the hex-editing, as are a few other little "tricks" that hex-editing people employed to "mark" their files.

As for "automatically" removing such items, it is possible, but would involve some deep programming skills, which are hard to find these days in the "hobby" world. Hebe might be able to pull it off, but he has other, more important chores to do with his mySH3-Tool first...

- which is something every modder should have in their toolbox, and use on a regular basis...

Hebe Vollmaus · 11-20-23, 04:50 PM

Hi,
yes. Today we may be a very little bit amused. But 2007 was another world. No S3D. Only Hex-edit. And as for that i have high respect for these Modders in the old days.
The "Best of" i have seen until today is the "Air_br.dat". A landed Sunderland-Aircraft was made out of a small Torpedoboat. A lot of unseen Ballast were left in.

My tool is not able to remove these Nodes.
To do this i need to know all things what can be in a Dat-file, which i do not know. And as this functionality already exist in S3D i do not see, as of today, that i like to re-invent the wheel.
I think S3D can be "persuaded" to do this automatically, but only with a selfmade program that will telecommand S3D.

The index is what propbeanie has shown. But i would not call it "S3D index". Its a Dat-index.
I have two sorts of "Bad index". One are these with a wrong Lenght-entry in the index-Header. This will stop S3D from Loading. And a second with a Node (ID) within the index, that shows a wrong file-position. S3D always adds a comment into a Dat-file and therefore will be all internal Node-positions also re-positioned in this index.

S3D is very good. Now i have used a function that i have never used before: "Save in Mod". Very helpful!

Greetings.

11-19-23, 04:04 PM	#1
Hebe Vollmaus Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 250 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 1	about Crash, zero-sized 3d-objects, index and shadows in Dat-files Hi there, for some reason i would like to stop modding and try to play again a Campaign from 1939 on to the end in 1945. But my game does not allow this! In the middle of 1942 i stumbled over a Ship that crashes the game to desktop. Modding may be an endless-loop. LOL I created a Training-Mission with that ship only to be shure the reason is this ship. Whenever i hit the target with my heavy-shells the game crashed. So with the help of "Silent 3ditor" (S3D) looked into its Dat-file. Found a bunch of zero-sized 3D-objects. Filled these 3Ds with something real. And the game nolonger crashes. Really annoying, since the zero-sized 3D-objects allone should not be the problem, as there are some other files around which use these things for good. For example for fake-funnels or rudders. I expanded mySH3-TooL to detect these Zero3Ds. On the way i found five Dat-files which S3D cannot open. Three of them had bad index-lenght. So added this to detect also indexes to my tool. What can i say... Almost all Dat-files in my SH3-install had bad indexes. Checked the original unmodified SH3 files - all are ok, and there are no zero-sized 3D-objects. As my game-install runs otherwise good, these indexes seems to be useless to the game. For the long story short, i deleted all indexes i can find. Also allmost all Shadows (SHD, DynamicShadowCast, DynamicShadow), and useless (unfinished/forgotten) zero-sized 3D-object. The game looks the same, as it does not use DynamicShadows anyway. SH3\data is a little more then 4GB. Saves little less then 60MB. Maybe not worth doing so. But now i have 3800 unused 3D-objects less. Greetings.

11-19-23, 05:04 PM	#2
FUBAR295 Krusty Krab Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Decks awash in the North Atlantic Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 443 Uploads: 0	Hebe, Interesting post. It may not help with the size but the loading time may be a bit faster, hopefully. There is a lot of junk and repetitive files taking up memory and adding to load times. I think Fifi and AlexOne have done a great job getting rid of unneeded stuff. I use your tool, it's great! Good hunting, FUBAR295 __________________ Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgment.

11-20-23, 07:06 AM	#3
Fifi Navy Seal Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: France Posts: 5,804 Downloads: 457 Uploads: 0	Yes, tons of unnecessary or not working things everywhere in this game Actually revising MFM ships, and had surprises with their 3D model… don’t know where they come from, but plenty weird things too __________________ https://www.mediafire.com/file/8axze...N_V6.1.7z/file

11-20-23, 10:25 AM	#5
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,810 Downloads: 444 Uploads: 2	I think he is referring to the S3D index: As usual though, I could well be wrong... lol - Some of what Hebe found is from the hex-editing days. Silent3Ditor will not let you save a dat file without first updating the index, which it does automatically when you save, or you can initiate it yourself. S3D also does ID checks and will let you know if there are conflicts there. None of that functionality is available with hex-editing. That is up to the user. The empty 3D objects are also part of the hex-editing, as are a few other little "tricks" that hex-editing people employed to "mark" their files. As for "automatically" removing such items, it is possible, but would involve some deep programming skills, which are hard to find these days in the "hobby" world. Hebe might be able to pull it off, but he has other, more important chores to do with his mySH3-Tool first... - which is something every modder should have in their toolbox, and use on a regular basis... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

11-20-23, 04:50 PM	#6
Hebe Vollmaus Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 250 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 1	Hi, yes. Today we may be a very little bit amused. But 2007 was another world. No S3D. Only Hex-edit. And as for that i have high respect for these Modders in the old days. The "Best of" i have seen until today is the "Air_br.dat". A landed Sunderland-Aircraft was made out of a small Torpedoboat. A lot of unseen Ballast were left in. My tool is not able to remove these Nodes. To do this i need to know all things what can be in a Dat-file, which i do not know. And as this functionality already exist in S3D i do not see, as of today, that i like to re-invent the wheel. I think S3D can be "persuaded" to do this automatically, but only with a selfmade program that will telecommand S3D. The index is what propbeanie has shown. But i would not call it "S3D index". Its a Dat-index. I have two sorts of "Bad index". One are these with a wrong Lenght-entry in the index-Header. This will stop S3D from Loading. And a second with a Node (ID) within the index, that shows a wrong file-position. S3D always adds a comment into a Dat-file and therefore will be all internal Node-positions also re-positioned in this index. S3D is very good. Now i have used a function that i have never used before: "Save in Mod". Very helpful! Greetings.