A bunch of questions on aircraft

[gap]

As the title says, here are some long-standing doubts of mine that I never managed resolving:

1. Are aircraft (or any other AI units) able to use their non-visual sensors for spotting other AI units, or they are only effective against player's boat?
   
   
2. For airbase-spawned aircraft, do they need to be in the same base and/or airgroup to act coordinately (i.e. a group of bombers with their fighter escort)?
   
   
3. For airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft, is there any way to make some classes not to spawn at night or - conversely - to only spawn in night time?
   
   
4. For airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft, do they inherit their veterancy level from the unit they spawn from, or how else is their veterancy level determined?
   
   
5. For airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft with multiple armament loadouts, is there any way to predict which loadout will be actually used in different circumstances? Is that random, or how else the game is assigning them?
   
   
6. For airbases and carriers with multiple airgroups, do their airgroups need to be sorted sequentially according to their start date? Can an airgroup start before the previous airgroup is ended? In other words, can an airgroup have a start date which is earlier than previous group's end date?
   
   
7. Has anyone tried adding one or more airgroup(s) to any non-carrier sea unit? That would be useful for simulating CAM/MAC ships and scout planes aboard cruisers and battleships.

Any hint by some knowledgeable subsim mate would be much appreciated

[propbeanie]

From an SH4 perspective, but I am reasonably certain the SH5 uses the same type configuration, though it might add script-based configurations, so be sure and check for that, gap. In order of your list:

1. 1. Have not attempted to observe that. Interesting question, though they do seem to be capable
2. A strange set of circumstances, this one is (yoda-speak)... If you create a group with waypoints, they "follow" the leader of the group, just like ships, yet they do act somewhat independently after the initial phase of attack. As for the "spawned" planes, I have seen what appears to be a group of two planes act independently, with one (the closer plane) of the two attacking a ship, while the second does not (distance or "visual"). So again, They act like a "group", but they will seemingly act independently of each other, though if the one plane doesn't attack, the one that does will generally only do one "run", and then rejoin its companion and continue on its course. If both planes attack, then both will continue to attack until they run out of "ammunition", or get shot down. Short answer: I do not know... lol
3. Using independent "AirBases" with different AirGroups might be one way, but in SH4, the AirStrike config is the only file controlling what the percentage chance of a night attack is... I don't know if maybe a script in SH5 is available for that??
4. Yes. You want to set the spawning "AirBase", whether carrier or land-based to "Expert" (4) in order to have "Expert" planes. Anything less than an "Expert" plane usually results in crashes with dive bombers, or with turns. Even at "Expert" level, planes do not fly very well... but they can drop a bomb down an open hatch at 500 foot altitude while flying at 312 knots while flying upside-down... Luke Skywalker style...
5. The easy way to "predict" which loadout will be used is the "Default" designation in the config and equipment files. Again though, I don't know if SH5 scripts can change that?
6. The game expects one group to end before the other starts, and that they are sequentially set in all manner.
7. In SH4 this works, and I'm sure it does in SH5 also, in that anything with a "carrier" designation can "launch" or spawn an airplane, which generally takes roughly 20 minutes to occur (20km). So Type=8 and Type=9, as well as Type=18 and Type=19 can spawn airplanes. You do have to have properly configured AirGroups for them, with valid air platforms.

I am 99.9% certain there are more / better replies that will be forthcoming, and from SH5 people...

[gap]

Wow, I wasn't expecting so many answers that soon!
Thank you very much propbeanie, your wisdom places you on the ligh side of the Force, Yoda appreciates that

That said he (Yoda) still has some doubts regarding your replies that I would like to ask in his behalf, if you don't mind...

Originally Posted by propbeanie

If you create a group with waypoints, they "follow" the leader of the group, just like ships, yet they do act somewhat independently after the initial phase of attack. As for the "spawned" planes...

Well, my question was more elementary than your answer seems to imply; I will give you an example. Let's say that I have an enemy airbase in range of an U-boat bunker, for it to spawn airstrikes at random intervals. If the airbase has bombers and fighters in the same airgroup, will they attack all together? If the answer is no, I am afraid that the only way to simulated raids with escorted bombers would be by scripting them, but that would be a more "expensive" solution (both in therms of pc resources usage and of work require by the modder in order to set up the attacks) and not as random as the airbase-spawned strikes thing.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Using independent "AirBases" with different AirGroups might be one way, but in SH4, the AirStrike config is the only file controlling what the percentage chance of a night attack is... I don't know if maybe a script in SH5 is available for that??

I doubt that, but let's see if someone pops up with some idea. I know there is a global paparameter controlling the chance of aircraft spawning at night, but I don't see anything that might tell the game which aircraft should fly at night and which ones not. I am actually surprised that devs didn't think to add such a basic feature; a simple flag in aircraft cfg or sim file would have been enough

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Yes. You want to set the spawning "AirBase", whether carrier or land-based to "Expert" (4) in order to have "Expert" planes. Anything less than an "Expert" plane usually results in crashes with dive bombers, or with turns. Even at "Expert" level, planes do not fly very well... but they can drop a bomb down an open hatch at 500 foot altitude while flying at 312 knots while flying upside-down... Luke Skywalker style...

Roger that lol

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The easy way to "predict" which loadout will be used is the "Default" designation in the config and equipment files. Again though, I don't know if SH5 scripts can change that?

Indeed f you script aircraft in campaign you can specify whatever loadout you want, but from your answer I get that airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft will only use the default loadout. Is that correct?

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Type=8 and Type=9, as well as Type=18 and Type=19 can spawn airplanes. You do have to have properly configured AirGroups for them, with valid air platforms.

What about other sea unit types? I am mostly interested in types 6, 7, 10, 11 (capital ships other than carriers), 101, 102 and 108 (freighters and tankers)....

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by gap

Wow, I wasn't expecting so many answers that soon!
Thank you very much propbeanie, your wisdom places you on the ligh side of the Force, Yoda appreciates that

That said he (Yoda) still has some doubts regarding your replies that I would like to ask in his behalf, if you don't mind...


Well, my question was more elementary than your answer seems to imply; I will give you an example. Let's say that I have an enemy airbase in range of an U-boat bunker, for it to spawn airstrikes at random intervals. If the airbase has bombers and fighters in the same airgroup, will they attack all together? If the answer is no, I am afraid that the only way to simulated raids with escorted bombers would be by scripting them, but that would be a more "expensive" solution (both in therms of pc resources usage and of work require by the modder in order to set up the attacks) and not as random as the airbase-spawned strikes thing.
The game "intelligence" will send airplanes out randomly, and bases the amount sent as response, apparently on the type of target, such that a submarine usually "qualifies" for what seems to eventually be 7 airplanes. An "enemy" corvette might get a 1 or 2 plane response, a DD gets 2 or 3, etc. What Fifi, s7rikeback and I discovered in Fifi's SH4 Dark Waters was that Brest "qualified" for a near-continuous air attack, which would commence shortly (roughly 20 minutes) after the player spawned into the game and was leaving port. I do not remember what he did to minimize that... About the only way to "fix" that is to alter the AirStrike.cfg, make the nearby enemy airbases with smaller, shorter-ranged planes, and to script with either Groups / Units and / or RGG / Random Units, with what you do want to show and when. The shorter-ranged planes at "specialist" AirBases is something we've used in FotRSU also, in an attempt to minimize the "Normal" AirBases sending an air response from beyond a mountain range that only results in innumerable airplanes crashing into the "terrain" near the player's sub, resulting in a similar amount of "Survivors". I do not know if SH5 does similar or not. But in SH4, every plane crash has a chance to generate a "Survivor" pilot...


I doubt that, but let's see if someone pops up with some idea. I know there is a global paparameter controlling the chance of aircraft spawning at night, but I don't see anything that might tell the game which aircraft should fly at night and which ones not. I am actually surprised that devs didn't think to add such a basic feature; a simple flag in aircraft cfg or sim file would have been enough
Yes, it would have been nice, and I do not know of anyway to control that either. As you mention, perhaps someone else has an idea about this. The "tag" for that could be "is this plane equipped with flight radar?"...


Roger that lol



Indeed f you script aircraft in campaign you can specify whatever loadout you want, but from your answer I get that airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft will only use the default loadout. Is that correct?
That is correct. The game will use the "default" loadout, found listed first in the eqp file in SH4, usually with a "; Basic Loadout" comment. The cfg file will not list that loadout, but only the additional ones built for the plane. One way to counter that behavior is to do small clones, with the cloned plane having a different basic load-out (and name, of course), and then place both planes in the base's AirGroup. However, it is still a "chance" thing in that the game chooses which plane(s) to send based upon chance also... You might get a PBY plane one time, a Mustang the next, and then a B-24, all dependent upon what is in the AirGroup at that time, and a roll of the dice, in conjunction with plane range. This is SH4 behavior...I wonder how SH5 handles GR2 planes, as well as their load-outs?


What about other sea unit types? I am mostly interested in types 6, 7, 10, 11 (capital ships other than carriers), 101, 102 and 108 (freighters and tankers)....

Unfortunately in SH4, if it is NOT a CV-type, it will not generate an airplane, whether you have an AirGroup attached or not. So our cat ship and one of the aux cruisers with an airplane to launch are set to either Type=8 or Type=18 in FotRSU, and you will "see" a plane spawn after the player's sub is detected. The plane will not spawn within the "spawn range" though, but like all things 3D in the game, will do so beyond the "horizon".

[gap]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The game "intelligence" will send airplanes out randomly, and bases the amount sent as response, apparently on the type of target, such that a submarine usually "qualifies" for what seems to eventually be 7 airplanes. An "enemy" corvette might get a 1 or 2 plane response, a DD gets 2 or 3, etc.

Interesting, that's the first time I hear about such a feature. Makes me wonder whether the type of response is hardcoded in the game or rather if it can be modified via AI scripts

Originally Posted by propbeanie

What Fifi, s7rikeback and I discovered in Fifi's SH4 Dark Waters was that Brest "qualified" for a near-continuous air attack, which would commence shortly (roughly 20 minutes) after the player spawned into the game and was leaving port.

I see. That is obviously a major problem. Constant air strikes at each patrol start would be utterly unrelaistic and they might render the game unplayable. Your reply doens't entirely answer my original question though: what happens if a base/airgroup has more than one type of aircraft and all of them have a a range long enough for attacking a player base? Will they perform combined attacks, or they will come separately, maybe due to their different max speeds?

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I do not remember what he did to minimize that... About the only way to "fix" that is to alter the AirStrike.cfg, make the nearby enemy airbases with smaller, shorter-ranged planes, and to script with either Groups / Units and / or RGG / Random Units, with what you do want to show and when.

AirStrike.cfg parameters being global, I would let their editing for fine-tuning, once all the airbases/airgroups are set up. Playing with aircraft MaxRadius as the first task, seems to me the best approach. In SH5, as in SHIV, we can create as many "shallow clones" of the same unit as we want, so a valid startegy might be creating many copies of the same aircraft, each copy having a different radius and ammo loadout depending on the different roles that the said plane played in reality.

If "long-range" bombers and fighters are assigned to airbases with moderation and if, at the same time, we place in Allied territory many airbases with "short-ranged" aircraft, one might play with the global Air Strike Probability factor so that the chances of a bombing raid on player bases will be acceptably low (due to the small number of squadrons equipped with long-range aircraft) while the chances of an air attack against the player, when he nears enemy territory, will still be relatively high (due do the comparatively large number of airgroups which have short-range aircraft assigned).

I hope I made myself clear, but I am probably rephrasing the workaround that you, Fifi, s7rikeback, etc. have laready applied to SHIV and that you have summarized in your reply to me. I am wondering if Vecko has devided something similar for TWoS.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Yes, it would have been nice, and I do not know of anyway to control that either. As you mention, perhaps someone else has an idea about this. The "tag" for that could be "is this plane equipped with flight radar?"...

Indeed that would have been the cleanest implementation of such a feature...

Originally Posted by propbeanie

That is correct. The game will use the "default" loadout, found listed first in the eqp file in SH4, usually with a "; Basic Loadout" comment. The cfg file will not list that loadout, but only the additional ones built for the plane.

Thank you for confirming that. In other words, additional loadouts are not applied except for the planes that are scripted in campaign layers. A bit odd, but as you said there are workarounds to that...

Originally Posted by propbeanie

One way to counter that behavior is to do small clones, with the cloned plane having a different basic load-out (and name, of course), and then place both planes in the base's AirGroup.

That is something I already had in mind, but my (long-therm) plan is more ambitious.

With all the information on RAF squadrons we have available from books and websites, we have the possibility to replicate in game a (simplified) version of RAF's 1939-45 order of battle. My idea is to replace generic UK airbases currently featured in game with unique ones, each of them being placed on the SH5 map appropriately for representing one specific RAF station, with the squadrons and aircraft that in real WWII warfare are know to have been based there.

Of course not all the RAF bases and squadrons would be represented, but only the ones which were involved in anti-submarine and anti-shipping warfare, maritime patrol, coastal defense, etc. Each airgroup would represent a squadron or a combination of squadrons with the aicraft they actually operated with ranges, armament loadouts and sensors set to reflect as closely as possible the known duties of those squadrons.

That's a whole lot of work and I am not even sure that the game could handle so many airbases and air groups, but let me daydream of it

Originally Posted by propbeanie

However, it is still a "chance" thing in that the game chooses which plane(s) to send based upon chance also... You might get a PBY plane one time, a Mustang the next, and then a B-24, all dependent upon what is in the AirGroup at that time, and a roll of the dice, in conjunction with plane range. This is SH4 behavior...I wonder how SH5 handles GR2 planes, as well as their load-outs?

I am pretty confident that nothing major has changed on this respect from SHIV to SH5.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Unfortunately in SH4, if it is NOT a CV-type, it will not generate an airplane, whether you have an AirGroup attached or not. So our cat ship and one of the aux cruisers with an airplane to launch are set to either Type=8 or Type=18 in FotRSU, and you will "see" a plane spawn after the player's sub is detected. The plane will not spawn within the "spawn range" though, but like all things 3D in the game, will do so beyond the "horizon".

That's a shame. The game has too few unit types, and each type as too many limitations relative to what it can do and what not, but we must live with it.

CAM and MAC ships can be set as escort carriers. They would fly the naval ensign whereas in reality, being commanded by a civil captain they would have sailed under the merchant ensign. There are workarounds to this, so that's only a minor issue, but the lack of airgroup support for battleships and cruisers annoys me big time lol

[gap]

I have one more question that I forgot to asking at post #1

8. Do aircraft assigned to a base need to be in the same national roster as the base itself? In other words: can I assign to an UK base an aicraft which is only found in the US roster, or I need to have two bases (one British and the other American) in the same place?

[vdr1981]

Here's what I learned about airbases and planes in SH5...

Are aircraft (or any other AI units) able to use their non-visual sensors for spotting other AI units, or they are only effective against player's boat?

I'll test this and let you know...

For airbase-spawned aircraft, do they need to be in the same base and/or airgroup to act coordinately (i.e. a group of bombers with their fighter escort)?

I never saw such behavior in SH5. Spawned group of airplanes is always made of one plane type...If that's what you meant?

For airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft, is there any way to make some classes not to spawn at night or - conversely - to only spawn in night time?

I don't think so, only nighttime modifier from airstrike.cfg which effects SH5 globally.

For airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft, do they inherit their veterancy level from the unit they spawn from, or how else is their veterancy level determined?

I was wondering the same. My guess is yes, but it's only a guess...

Has anyone tried adding one or more airgroup(s) to any non-carrier sea unit? That would be useful for simulating CAM/MAC ships and scout planes aboard cruisers and battleships.

Hm, that's an interesting one... In theory this should work just like normal AC.

However, It's important to note that when TDW patches for AC are activated, AC will indeed spawn aircrafts when you are detected but the planes will simply roll of the deck and fall in the water...
Regardless, AC will still regularly spawn planes even without TDW patches enabled but only while outside of players 3D rendering range (40 km by default), just like "moving" airbase.

There is also one more very important and ugly bug about airbases in SH5.
Inactive bases will spawn planes even before airbase activation date if there's axis threat zone up to XXX miles away (in addition to sea traffic avoidance,opposite threat zones are used as a patrol zones for planes as well )! For example, Airbase in Azores, which should become active in 1943 IIRC, will spawn planes even in Happy times campaign as well, well before airbase activation date. If such planes enter players 3D rendering range the game will most likelly CTD and if saved before that, the save will become corrupted.

There were a lot of these conflicts in the original OHII files but I managed to solved them somehow in Wolves...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Here's what I learned about airbases and planes in SH5...

Thank you Vecko, I was waiting for you to give your contribution to this thread, and now I know that my wait was worth all the knowledge you had to share on the topic

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I'll test this and let you know...

Yes please! I would test that myself but at present I have not the game installed on my computer...

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I never saw such behavior in SH5. Spawned group of airplanes is always made of one plane type...If that's what you meant?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. In other words, the only way to simulate bomber raids with fighter escorts, is by scripting them, isn't it?

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I don't think so, only nighttime modifier from airstrike.cfg which effects SH5 globally.

That's a real pity, but I am afraid we will have to live with it...

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I was wondering the same. My guess is yes, but it's only a guess...

According to propbeanie, whose bigger experience is relative to SHIV, yes they take the veterancy level of their parent unit (no matter whether it is an airbase or a carrier), and airplanes lesser than 'elite' or whatever is the highest veterancy level, have the bad tendency to stall and fall down. Can you confirm that the former statement also applies to SH5?

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Hm, that's an interesting one... In theory this should work just like normal AC.

That would be really cool, but again, according to propbeanie it won't work in SHIV. There is only a little chance that it will in SH5, but worth a test anyway

Originally Posted by vdr1981

However, It's important to note that when TDW patches for AC are activated, AC will indeed spawn aircrafts when you are detected but the planes will simply roll of the deck and fall in the water...
Regardless, AC will still regularly spawn planes even without TDW patches enabled but only while outside of players 3D rendering range (40 km by default), just like "moving" airbase.

mmm... that's weird. I am pretty sure the same TDW had tested that patch before releasing it. I remember that from the discussion we had back then. Maybe some other mod/patch is messing with that feature, or it will only work under certain circumstances. I wonder whether carrier (=aircraft?) vetrancy level or IRAI version might have anything to do with that...

Originally Posted by vdr1981

There is also one more very important and ugly bug about airbases in SH5.
Inactive bases will spawn planes even before airbase activation date if there's axis threat zone up to XXX miles away (in addition to sea traffic avoidance,opposite threat zones are used as a patrol zones for planes as well )! For example, Airbase in Azores, which should become active in 1943 IIRC, will spawn planes even in Happy times campaign as well, well before airbase activation date. If such planes enter players 3D rendering range the game will most likelly CTD and if saved before that, the save will become corrupted.

There were a lot of these conflicts in the original OHII files but I managed to solved them somehow in Wolves...

That's probably the most important piece of information of your last reply, I am really admired by your patience in tracking down all these bugs!

In other words - correct me if I am wrong - that means that air groups must cover without gaps the whole campaign duration, otherwise some buggy planes will spawn and the game will crash as soon as they enter rendering radius, right?

If so, a possible workaround might be filling the empty gaps before, after and in between "offensive" air groups with "filler" air groups equipped with one or more unharmed planes, like a transport, a trainer, a liaison aircraft, a scout or something along these lines. Even better, we could assign to those airgroups just one customized aircraft with a very short max radius, so that it will hardly cross our routes

[vdr1981]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. In other words, the only way to simulate bomber raids with fighter escorts, is by scripting them, isn't it?

I think so, yes...

According to propbeanie, whose bigger experience is relative to SHIV, yes they take the veterancy level of their parent unit (no matter whether it is an airbase or a carrier), and airplanes lesser than 'elite' or whatever is the highest veterancy level, have the bad tendency to stall and fall down. Can you confirm that the former statement also applies to SH5?

Not really...SH5 airplanes are equally incompetent on all veterancy levels...

That would be really cool, but again, according to propbeanie it won't work in SHIV. There is only a little chance that it will in SH5, but worth a test anyway

I'm pretty much sure that it can be done, why not? Even fishing boat can be made as AC, 3D model is quite irrelevant IMO. It's only a matter of CFG file and unit type...

mmm... that's weird. I am pretty sure the same TDW had tested that patch before releasing it. I remember that from the discussion we had back then. Maybe some other mod/patch is messing with that feature, or it will only work under certain circumstances. I wonder whether carrier (=aircraft?) vetrancy level or IRAI version might have anything to do with that...

I may do one more test since I already have one mission wit AC in it but I'm not very optimistic...

In other words - correct me if I am wrong - that means that air groups must cover without gaps the whole campaign duration, otherwise some buggy planes will spawn and the game will crash as soon as they enter rendering radius, right?

I'll take Azores AB again as an example. This airbase since it's active from 1943 (TP campaign) shouldn't be present in campaign files from TG, HT, WA and other campaign chapters prior the TP...And in TP campaign it should be active right from the campaign start...

Even better, we could assign to those airgroups just one customized aircraft with a very short max radius, so that it will hardly cross our routes

That wouldn't be a safe solution IMO. It will cause problems sooner or later...


I don't remember all the trick I did to bypass these problems, it was several months ago, but I do remember that I had to carefully inspect all airbase layers from all the campaigns and set them accordingly. I also remember that I had to create new (clone) airbases in Final years campaign because of this but I dont remember exactly why...


You can download the archive and inspect the files for your self if you like, it can be opened with winrar or 7zip...

[vdr1981]

It seems that airplane radars can detect AI units without problems. They managed to attack and sink German freighter in the middle of the night and in extreme weather conditions with visibility no more than 300m and I set their WP significantly off course...


But I just couldn't make TDW patches for AC to work again from some reason.

[vdr1981]

...and I can confirm that regular catapult ship can be cloned to AC and it may launch airplane, outside of 3D rendering area of course... We dont have in SH5 appropriate plane type for this purpose though.


EDIT:


This plane I mean...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Not really...SH5 airplanes are equally incompetent on all veterancy levels...

So I thought lol

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I'm pretty much sure that it can be done, why not? Even fishing boat can be made as AC, 3D model is quite irrelevant IMO. It's only a matter of CFG file and unit type...

Sure, but my idea was to keep the original unit types for correct ship usage within generic traffic. I don't think that air groups will be on any use in the .cfg file of a battleship, cruiser or merchant -type ship, but probably non one has tested that in SH5...

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I may do one more test since I already have one mission wit AC in it but I'm not very optimistic...

Wait, now that you to rethink about it, I seem to remember that for that patch to work correctly carriers needed an extra bone to be used as spawning point for their aircraft, but don't quote me on that. It has been a long time since I had that conversation with TDW, but the discussion should be somewhere in TDW's patcher's thread

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I'll take Azores AB again as an example. This airbase since it's active from 1943 (TP campaign) shouldn't be present in campaign files from TG, HT, WA and other campaign chapters prior the TP...And in TP campaign it should be active right from the campaign start...

That is reasonable anyway, there would be no point in having that base in early campaigns (thus increasing loading times and memory usage), if it won't be active.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

That wouldn't be a safe solution IMO. It will cause problems sooner or later...

Why? Due to the way I want to set up airbases (according to their real usage by squadrons whose duty was relevant to naval warfare) there might be several gaps between an air group and the next one. Going by your experience, those gaps might cause problems similar to airbases whose first air group is inactive early on. My idea is to fill those gaps with "filler air groups". They would be identical to regular air groups except for the fact that they would include a small number of unharmed aircraft with a very limited range. I don't see why they should cause problems...

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I don't remember all the trick I did to bypass these problems, it was several months ago, but I do remember that I had to carefully inspect all airbase layers from all the campaigns and set them accordingly. I also remember that I had to create new (clone) airbases in Final years campaign because of this but I dont remember exactly why...


You can download the archive and inspect the files for your self if you like, it can be opened with winrar or 7zip...

Yes, I would like to study your files, where can I download the zip version of TWoS?

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

It seems that airplane radars can detect AI units without problems. They managed to attack and sink German freighter in the middle of the night and in extreme weather conditions with visibility no more than 300m and I set their WP significantly off course...

That's good news

Among the other things, that means that we can get Tempest fighters equipped with air-to-air radar to intercept and destroy V-1 flying bombs in late '44

For that to work, TDW's "dogfight" patch should be enabled. Do you have any experience with that?

BTW, I think you should equip your air raid sirens with radar for them to work at night as well as during daytime.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

But I just couldn't make TDW patches for AC to work again from some reason.

Please read my comment on this subject in the post below

Originally Posted by vdr1981

...and I can confirm that regular catapult ship can be cloned to AC and it may launch airplane, outside of 3D rendering area of course...

Did you set that CAM ship as a carrier?
If possible I would prefer not messing with ship types. CAM and MAC ships can be set as escort carriers with little consequences on generic traffic composition, as far as they are given historically plausible start end dates, but scout plane-equipped battleships and cruisers spawning in place of carriers woudn't be right

Originally Posted by vdr1981

We dont have in SH5 appropriate plane type for this purpose though.

Aircraft units and 3D models are the least problem. We cam extract that biplane from the ship unit and make it in an air unit or, if need be, we can create a more detailed 3D model for the same use

[vdr1981]

Wait, now that you to rethink about it, I seem to remember that for that patch to work correctly carriers needed an extra bone to be used as spawning point for their aircraft, but don't quote me on that. It has been a long time since I had that conversation with TDW, but the discussion should be somewhere in TDW's patcher's thread

I tried with two types only, maybe some other AC type is capable of planes spawning by default...I'll test this when I have time...

Why? Due to the way I want to set up airbases (according to their real usage by squadrons whose duty was relevant to naval warfare) there might be several gaps between an air group and the next one. Going by your experience, those gaps might cause problems similar to airbases whose first air group is inactive early on. My idea is to fill those gaps with "filler air groups". They would be identical to regular air groups except for the fact that they would include a small number of unharmed aircraft with a very limited range. I don't see why they should cause problems...

You were talking about airbase cfg file?? Aaaah ok then...Sry IIRC everything will be OK until we don't have inactive airbase in our current campaign due to not yet reached or passed activation date...

Yes, I would like to study your files, where can I download the zip version of TWoS?

In my signature

[U-190]

Originally Posted by gap

As the title says, here are some long-standing doubts of mine that I never managed resolving:

1. Are aircraft (or any other AI units) able to use their non-visual sensors for spotting other AI units, or they are only effective against player's boat?
   
   
2. For airbase-spawned aircraft, do they need to be in the same base and/or airgroup to act coordinately (i.e. a group of bombers with their fighter escort)?
   
   
3. For airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft, is there any way to make some classes not to spawn at night or - conversely - to only spawn in night time?
   
   
4. For airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft, do they inherit their veterancy level from the unit they spawn from, or how else is their veterancy level determined?
   
   
5. For airbase/carrier-spawned aircraft with multiple armament loadouts, is there any way to predict which loadout will be actually used in different circumstances? Is that random, or how else the game is assigning them?
   
   
6. For airbases and carriers with multiple airgroups, do their airgroups need to be sorted sequentially according to their start date? Can an airgroup start before the previous airgroup is ended? In other words, can an airgroup have a start date which is earlier than previous group's end date?
   
   
7. Has anyone tried adding one or more airgroup(s) to any non-carrier sea unit? That would be useful for simulating CAM/MAC ships and scout planes aboard cruisers and battleships.

Any hint by some knowledgeable subsim mate would be much appreciated

The behavior of aircraft and ships is random. The AI behavior is recorded in one common configuration file. I was trying to solve the problem you are talking about in IRAI v0.0.45. For more advanced behavior, each individual AI should have its own behavior configuration file. A similar expansion is observed only in later versions of modern games.
I think that I will still make attempts to work on this problem.