Shooting down aircraft with the deck gun - possible IRL?

[Subnuts]

In the (really terrible) Haynes "workshop manual" for the Type VII, the author mentions that "a number" aircraft were actually shot down by 8.8 cm deck guns before they were removed from the boats in 1943.

Frankly, I'm having kind of a hard time believing this. The 8.8cm/45 would have made an absolutely terrible anti-aircraft gun - manual elevation and traverse, unstabilized, maximum elevation of 30 degrees, extremely rudimentary fire control, and the Germans never fielded a "real" (with a proximity fuze) AA shell for the gun. Seems like you'd have to be absolutely desperate to use the deck gun against an enemy plane, you wouldn't be able to crash dive while it was manned, and you'd have to have unbelievably good luck to hit anything with it. At least the 2cm and 3.7cm AA guns had a decent chance of screwing up an enemy's bomb run!

This is the same book that gives the Type IXB with a 182-knot surface speed, and lookouts infrared night vision goggles, so I'd obviously take anything from it with a grain of salt. Still, in the 15 years I've been studying the Battle of the Atlantic, I've never heard of a single Allied plane being shot down by one of the U-boats' "big" guns. Can anyone more obsessed with the subject please give me a Yes or No?

[vanjast]

Considering your number of posts.. I'm surprised this has you worried ?
Do you have a link to Haynes ?

[Cybermat47]

I managed to shoot down a plane with the deck gun in SH5. But I was on 2% realism or something, so it's not a very reliable source...

[Sailor Steve]

Here is a list of every aircraft shot down by u-boats. I saw no deck gun kills, but I've only had time to look at about a quarter of it.

Have fun.
http://uboat.net/history/aircraft_losses.htm

[UKönig]

I make use of the 88mm cannon against aircraft only when desperate. Yes, it has worked for me, but I had to put the gun more or less into the position the aircraft was going to be when it passed by overhead. We only get 1-2 chances to score a hit, until he turns around and lines up another pass, but it's a white-knuckle ride the whole time. I think I may have shot down 3 or 4 of the 'big birds' (sunderland on up) and I have hit a B24 with one, but that's just me playing a game. In real life, I seriously doubt I would even attempt it, maybe if it were our last chance at life, and nothing else worked by that point...

[Admiral Halsey]

I actually did it by accident once. Was shooting a tramp steamer when I get the warning a plane had been spotted. I forgot I was in the deck gun for a second and ended up nailing it on the first shot. Gave one one helluva fireworks show as well.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Here is a list of every aircraft shot down by u-boats. I saw no deck gun kills, but I've only had time to look at about a quarter of it.

Have fun.
http://uboat.net/history/aircraft_losses.htm

Thankyou for that great post! I read all of the entries and all say 'Flak'; not one deck gun! moreover if you are at 17 knots and turning sharply to evade even a slow Sunderland I don't imagine there are voluteers to go onto a lower main deck in even moderate seas; much less aim the gun under such conditions. One entry stuck out in my mind as particularly nasty but not untypical: "Aircraft attack, aircraft shot down:
British Wellington (RAF Sqdn 172/Q, pilot: F/O W.H.T. Jennings)
The sinking of U-459 Type XIV supply and replenishment U-boat ( Milchkuh . 17.15 hrs, NW of Corunna, Spain: despite taking the boat by surprise, the Wellington was hit by heavy and accurate AA fire on the initial attack run, lost control, and crashed into the boat on the starboard side. Only the tail gunner (Sgt A.A. Turner) survived, when his turret separated on impact and he found himself in the water close to an inflated dinghy. The remaining five aircrew were killed. U-459 lost several(19) gunners and most of the AA guns in the crash, and the crew found three unexploded depth charges on deck when clearing the wreckage. They decided to roll them into the sea at high speed, but at least one exploded, close enough to disable the steering gear and cause severe damage to the stern compartments.
At approx. 17.30 hrs, a second Wellington (RAF Sqdn 547/V, F/O J. Whyte) strafed the boat and dropped seven depth charges, causing further damage. KorvettanKapitän Wilamowitz-Möllendorf, age 48, ordered his men to abandon ship and saluted them as they rowed away, then went below to open the scuttling vents. He went down with his boat. 41 Germans and the sole British survivor were picked up by ORP Orkan some 8 hours later." And this sneaky trick: " 27 Nov 1943 Aircraft attack, aircraft shot down:
British Wellington bomber HF153 (RAF Sqdn 172/O, pilot P/O T.B. Wilkin) 21.22 hrs, Atlantic W of Lisbon: While escorting combined convoys SL 140/MKS 31 from its base on the Azores, the Wellington made a Leigh Light attack and was hit by flak after making an initial strafing run. Its subsequent crash was witnessed by U-262 and U-238 which picked up two survivors, F/S Nicolas J. Martin and Sgt Thomas B. Semple. The other five aircrew were lost. Sgt Semple was the radio operator, and later convinced the Germans during his interrogation that Allied aircraft were able to passively locate U-boats by homing in on their radar detection devices. This deception led to the order to U-boats to turn off their Naxos detectors.
BOTTOM LINE IMHO: As in previous posts: Stay heavy to reduce dive time at 5-6 meters (some reduction of speed) in Bay of Biscay or, as above examples, off Spain's coast, and be prepared to crash dive at all times-DO NOT stay up to fight with aircraft. Even a damaged boat returning to the French 5 Atlantic ports was 'as good as boat lost' to the Allies; the wait-backup(turnaround time) to get into bombproof pen repair facilities was never really solved by the Kreigsmarine....Black May is illuminating (Leigh-Lights notwithstanding) reading on the subject!

[Lokisaga]

Uboat.net has no records of such an event under "U-boat Successes Against Aircraft," but it does have a story about a u-boat shooting down a Soviet plane with its deck gun under the entry about deck guns, in the section about unusual feats of gunnery, "An excellent hit was landed by U-242 on 10 Oct, 1944 when it shot down a Russian aircraft with her 8,8cm deck gun!" This article doesn't cite any sources, so I'm still skeptical. For all of the reasons that others have stated above, the deck gun made an abominable anti-aircraft weapon. I think some people might be, at first glance, confusing it with the Wehrmacht's famous anti-aircraft and anti-armor 88mm, but the two guns have almost nothing in common.

The article is here: http://www.uboat.net/technical/guns.htm.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Here is a list of every aircraft shot down by u-boats. I saw no deck gun kills, but I've only had time to look at about a quarter of it.

Have fun.
http://uboat.net/history/aircraft_losses.htm

I'm with Steve on this one but I have shot down a K-Ship ingame with the deck gun