Confederate flag flies again..

[Armistead]

Becoming quite an issue here bouts..

A southern heritage group rents private land right off I-95 near Richmond to fly a large CSA battle flag. Mainly this is in protest of the CSA flag no longer allowed in any manner being flown over any CSA historical public funded forum, museums, landmarks, even Confederate graves. Flag not even allowed during CW celebrations funded by public. Lil strange seeing all the CSA reenactors marching in parade with no flag.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...86b8817e2.html

Thoughts.....

Really going to become an issue of private rights.

[AVGWarhawk]

To me the flag is a not a symbol of heritage. It is a symbol of a very dark spot in US history. The flag is not raised in any historical context that I can see. It will only incite problems. Maybe this is a stretch but flying the flag with swastika over Berlin is on the same level.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Becoming quite an issue here bouts..

A southern heritage group rents private land right off I-95 near Richmond to fly a large CSA battle flag. Mainly this is in protest of the CSA flag no longer allowed in any manner being flown over any CSA historical public funded forum, museums, landmarks, even Confederate graves. Flag not even allowed during CW celebrations funded by public. Lil strange seeing all the CSA reenactors marching in parade with no flag.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...86b8817e2.html

Thoughts.....

Really going to become an issue of private rights.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

To me the flag is a not a symbol of heritage. It is a symbol of a very dark spot in US history. The flag is not raised in any historical context that I can see. It will only incite problems. Maybe this is a stretch but flying the flag with swastika over Berlin is on the same level.

Having been stationed in Mississippi for a bit in my younger years, I can honestly understand both sides of the issue.

On one side, you have "Heritage not hate!"
On the other side, it's viewed as a white supremacist flag.


Which view you take, i think depends a lot on where you were you were raised or live, and the context in which the flag is seen while being used. Unfortunately the flag is used in a very negative context much of the time and because of that it's going to remain as seen as a negative thing by the majority of people.

Edit:
To be honest, I am a bit put off when I see it, because I don't normally see it at all. A year or so ago, my wife and I saw the "stars and bars" on the tail gate of a pickup we happened to get behind while going down a mountain. Dudes riding in the truck bed were wearing overalls and chewing tobacco (as an ex user i know it when i see it). They look like some deep south transplants. Both my wife and I were looking at each other going "Seriously?!". It bothered her seeing that in Utah.

On the other hand it doesn't bother me in the least if i saw the flag over relevant historical sites from the Civil war time period.

Context is key.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Having been stationed in Mississippi for a bit in my younger years, I can honestly understand both sides of the issue.

On one side, you have "Heritage not hate!"
On the other side, it's viewed as a white supremacist flag.


Which view you take, i think depends a lot on where you were you were raised or live, and the context in which the flag is seen while being used. Unfortunately the flag is used in a very negative context much of the time and because of that it's going to remain as seen as a negative thing by the majority of people.

Edit:
To be honest, I am a bit put off when I see it, because I don't normally see it at all. A year or so ago, my wife and I saw the "stars and bars" on the tail gate of a pickup we happened to get behind while going down a mountain. Dudes riding in the truck bed were wearing overalls and chewing tobacco (as an ex user i know it when i see it). They look like some deep south transplants. Both my wife and I were looking at each other going "Seriously?!". It bothered her seeing that in Utah.

On the other hand it doesn't bother me in the least if i saw the flag over relevant historical sites from the Civil war time period.

Context is key.

I understand both sides as well. I certainly agree with the black man that spoke in the video in the link. Heritage or hate? In our town are numerous rednecks with the flag in their yard and bumper stickers 'the south will rise again"

However, I love history. I don't even get into the heritage and pride thing, what my ancestors did is simply history to me, something I want to know and understand. I love the flavor of history, it's symbols, customs, etc. I love studying black history as well. Obvious, the greater part of history is controlled and funded by the govt. When it comes to CSA historical sites, why hide the history because some of it offends.

What if groups of indians started mass complaining about the US flag, all the statues of presidents and generals that partook in the genocide of their tribes? The hypocrisy of freeing one people of color, only to commit genocide and enslave another. Would we remove all that history as well?

It is about context. To me, it's not about southern pride or heritage, it's history. It is strange to me to go to a big CSA historical event sponsored by the govt. or held on public land and not see this part of history. The last Stonewall celebration parade, no Confederate flags allowed. I honestly saw few blacks, but seemed they were more there to report any person that unravelled a CSA flag.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

However, I love history. I don't even get into the heritage and pride thing, what my ancestors did is simply history to me, something I want to know and understand.

My sentiments exactly. July 24 is the anniversary of the day the Mormon pioneers entered the Salt Lake valley. I make a point of asking people "The Pioneers came here to escape from the United States. That's fine, but why are you flying the American flag and not the Utah State flag?"

[Armistead]

A big problem is cities and states want CSA reenactors to show up in mass for parades, dedications, holidays or events. Most our groups bring their regiment flag that displays regiment number and battle history. These are exact replicas of the originals, but most are backdropped the the battle flag. Most govt events that involve the public we can no longer fly them.

What really got this group going is when the Confederate flag was removed from the the Confederate Memorial Chapel in Richmond. Then the opening of the new Museum of the Confederacy at Appomattox, which won't have a Confederate flag in or out of the museum.

[Aktungbby]

[QUOTE=Sailor Steve;2097804]

Originally Posted by Armistead

However, I love history. I don't even get into the heritage and pride thing, what my ancestors did is simply history to me, something I want to know and understand.QUOTE]
My sentiments exactly. July 24 is the anniversary of the day the Mormon pioneers entered the Salt Lake valley. I make a point of asking people "The Pioneers came here to escape from the United States. That's fine, but why are you flying the American flag and not the Utah State flag?"

Interesting debate: and not far removed from our subsimming passion, as in Germany the game we play cannot have certain flags?? However as a Federal security officer often charged with daily flag duty and as a Civil War reenactor, I'm somewhere in-between on the issue. I've participated in formal Fourth of July parades and that military review stand salutes either the US flag ( Damnyankee) or the rebel battle flag with equal enthusiasm as they go by. What strikes me as peculiar is that parade permits are still issued to the KKK as a function of free speech yet flag issues of a considerably less offensive nature when conducted in a historical context are 'verboten'. We don't disallow the redcoats a British flag at Williamsburg or any of the revolutionary related events and they were slave owners too..

[Glock30Eric]

I am glad that they put the flag up. IMO I think we should burn Lincoln Memorial to the ground because former President Lincoln committed a genocide upon the southern by declaring war against them. The southern states had the right to secede the union as stated in COTUS. Unfortunately, the north won the war so they had the right to write the history in the north's best interest. That is why most of Americans are giving the glory to Lincoln based on the "propaganda history" by the North.

The CSA flag should remind us of what Lincoln did to us and to the COTUS, so that way we could prevent that ever to happen again.

Long Live CSA Flag!


Former President Lincoln is in the same league as with Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, et al by committing the politicide (an act of genocide upon the people based on their political standing).

NOTE: The civil war wasn't all about the slaves. It was all about the states and the federal. There are well documentations that the southern slaves did fight along with the southern soldiers, voluntary.

[CaptainHaplo]

While the flag is part of a very dark time in our history - its people like the NAACP guy quoted that demonstrates both a lack of knowledge in history and a bit of racism against whites as well...

He should get to know H. K. Edgerton - a former NAACP city president who supports flying the confederate flag. Of course, H.K. also understands the true reasons behind the civil war - which had little to do with slavery - which doesn't fit the needs of the agenda of the esteemed "executive director" of the Virginia NAACP.

For those interested in H.K. and his work - along with significant, documented information on the subject - see:
http://southernheritage411.com/

So - no one noted the racism in the piece? No one noted the comment that anyone supporting the Stars and Bars must be from a "backwater, trailer park, hick town.".... Of course, since that statement came from a black man, it can't be racist, right?

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Of course, H.K. also understands the true reasons behind the civil war - which had little to do with slavery - which doesn't fit the needs of the agenda of the esteemed "executive director" of the Virginia NAACP.

Oh cool, so we're doing this again.

Oh cool, so we're doing this again.

Who is going to link to the historical documents yet again to prove that the line you quoted is rubbish....again

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

While which had little to do with slavery

While that statement may seem innocent to you, to me it amounts to trolling. I know you didn't mean it that way, but every time somebody says that it immediately makes me want to respond, which I can't do without being accused of derailing the thread, and rightly so, but when it gets mentioned in a minor context and stated as a "fact" that is exactly what happens.

Therefore my only response can be to ask you to leave your personal agenda out of a thread in which it is not relevant.

[Jimbuna]

I sincerely hope everyone can stay on the original topic.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Therefore my only response can be to ask you to leave your personal agenda out of a thread in which it is not relevant.

Its cool Steve - its not so much a personal agenda as something I think people need to take time to look at all the facts. But yes, a discussion on it could derail the thread.

What I note is that the objection to the flag by the NAACP director is that it raises a racist, "backward" viewpoint. Yet, no one seems to take that same person to task for racially insulting those having a different opinion on the flag and its meaning.

After all - I have never heard anyone but whites called "hicks" and what amounts to "Trailer Trash". Yet he gets a pass - because he is supposedly "anti-racist".

[Simmy]

That flag is a part of history, as almost all flags are.
In America you can fly a Nazi flag but not a Confederate flag?
Somehow that doesn't make much sense.