Getting Really Frustrated, Help Please!

steakbbq · 12-19-11, 01:50 AM

So I got realistic navigation and realism on 100%, I have learned a lot and I really like the 4 bearings method. HOWEVER.

I dive to 30m and pick up a contact. I have only tried on contacts moving towards me but anyways. I start plotting the bearings and everything is fine. Before I can get to the 3rd bearing a different ship becomes the closest contact and I cant get bearing readings from the sonarman on the original contact anymore.

If i have him follow the contact I cant get a bearing reading when I need it.

It is a pain in the ass to manually figure out the bearing on the hydrophone, having to find the spread and then find the average.

Am I doing something wrong? All the video tuts and stuff only have one contact around... they never ever have a different contact become the closest.

Range readings from sonar pings and estimates are trash.

I am having a REALLY hard time finding stuff to blow up. Any tips?

Also can you use the 4 bearings method and intercept a target moving away from you?

Ill keep trying but A response would be MUCH APPRECIATED. THanks.

Dogfish40 · 12-19-11, 12:07 PM

Ahoy Steakbbq (cool name)
I never really counted on the hydrophones for an accurate range. The best that they are able to do is give you a general range but even better course. If I mark the end point of the contact line with an X. Then do the same after a given amount of minutes, then draw a line dissecting both, I have a reasonable enemy course. (It's also good to be somewhat zoomed in on the map). I never have had to ping a range at this point because I'm concerned with my interception course. Once we're close enough, Everything comes together. In visual range, I get all the data I need. If there is another ship in the area (closer) Jump on those phones yourself to find your contacts heading. If it disappears you may have to turn to port or starboard to reacquire the contact you want, (depending on which type of hydrophone you have installed on your boat).
My point is, in the war, the Hydrophones were only a basic instrument to get a contact. They were not very accurate at that time and even when I plot a course for the enemy ship, I usually find that my line is off up to 100 meters or more and I don't really know that until I have a visual.
After some time, I think you'll get to love what the hydrophones are capable of. I'm count our blessings that we have them.
Hope any of this helps and Good Luck Herr Kaleun.

Trevally. · 12-19-11, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steakbbq

So I got realistic navigation and realism on 100%, I have learned a lot and I really like the 4 bearings method. HOWEVER..

Stick with it - its worth the time spent learning

Quote:

I dive to 30m and pick up a contact. I have only tried on contacts moving towards me but anyways. I start plotting the bearings and everything is fine. Before I can get to the 3rd bearing a different ship becomes the closest contact and I cant get bearing readings from the sonarman on the original contact anymore.

If i have him follow the contact I cant get a bearing reading when I need it.

Yes - this is very hard to get right when reading more than one ship.
I continue to use the 4 bearing when this happen - but from that point on I am aware that the solution I am going to get is only going to be any good to predict the targets paths. Then head to a planned kill point and wait for target.

When target arrives, I then use visual sightings to get a true solution on the convoy

Quote:

It is a pain in the ass to manually figure out the bearing on the hydrophone, having to find the spread and then find the average.

Am I doing something wrong? All the video tuts and stuff only have one contact around... they never ever have a different contact become the closest.

As above - if multi targets are confusing your bearing - just use to intercept.

Have you tried the Trev Tutorial for 4 bearings

Quote:

Range readings from sonar pings and estimates are trash.

They are only as good as your hydro setup - so if your hydro is a deg off an extra % error is introduced = this also happens with multi targets that may scramble the sounds and give extra errors.

Again - when this happens - factor it into your plan.

Quote:

I am having a REALLY hard time finding stuff to blow up. Any tips?

Have you patched your exe to fix the hydro?

Quote:

Also can you use the 4 bearings method and intercept a target moving away from you?

Yes - try my tutorials

Quote:

Ill keep trying but A response would be MUCH APPRECIATED. THanks

Keep asking questions - its the best way to learn

steakbbq · 12-19-11, 03:21 PM

Hi dogfish. So, what you said makes sense however, I dont have the bearing lines turned on. I am using 100% realism and real navigation and I have the automatic bearing lines off.

Hi Trevally, Yes I used your 4 bearing tutorial and it was awesome, really taught me how to do 4 bearings.

Just been having a heard time with multiple contacts, also I have been pointing my boat at true north when gettting hydro readings because then your relative bearing is easier, you dont need to calculate

I realized that all along I was doing stuff right though..

I got a couple 4 bearings solved and had range and heading, realized that it was some kind of shipping lane and went there to camp it. up hunting a cap ship right now though... havent even fire a torpedo on this campaign yet and its like sep 11/12 lol.

ahhh. that makes sense about hydro scrambling targets or if it is dogged off.

i started watching das boot last night... an AWESOME movie!

yea i have the sh5 exe fix

another question, can the enemy hear the ping when you do depth under keel?

Trevally. · 12-19-11, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steakbbq

another question, can the enemy hear the ping when you do depth under keel?

Yes - escorts can. Depth under keel only
Range ping cant be heard yet. (perhaps could be fixed someday by adding the depth under keel commaand ti it)

Try this is a single player mission

TheDarkWraith · 12-19-11, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steakbbq

ahhh. that makes sense about hydro scrambling targets or if it is dogged off.

It sounds like you're using my UIs mod. If so, I inject a dll into the game that takes a little control of the hydrophone station. It makes the hydrophone station much more realistic. If there are multiple targets along a bearing line then the ability of your sonarman to follow a single contact on that bearing line is greatly diminished. The estimate range function was replaced by one in the dll. It takes into account the % error your hydrophone bearing line is currently to the actual bearing to the target, how many contacts are near this bearing line, morale and health of the sonarman, and some other things to compute the estimated range. Like I said it's a LOT more realistic now

Pisces · 12-19-11, 04:07 PM

To answer about targets moving away. Theoretically, yes, with uber-accurate bearing lines it works also when the target is moving away and allready quite far. But since the bearing drift slows down as the target moves away it is difficult to get enough difference in bearing direction. Then the lines become more and more parallel as time moves on. Which is not good for this method. You also risk the target leaving your detection range. But you don't know when that is so don't let it stop you. Besides, Kuikeg developed a 4-bearing method that works when the uboat is moving. So, while on the surface you can usually use superior speed (full or flank) while doing it.

For practical use, ... well practise.

(And what TDW said)

sparrs · 12-19-11, 05:22 PM

As mentioned I also use the pencil marker on a hydrophone contact, then leave a few minutes and place again, then draw a ruler line through them both to get the estimate course. Then use periscope to get the visual and range. Also ruler can estimate range from your sub to marker, so you still have some idea.

12-19-11, 01:50 AM	#1
steakbbq Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 13 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Getting Really Frustrated, Help Please! So I got realistic navigation and realism on 100%, I have learned a lot and I really like the 4 bearings method. HOWEVER. I dive to 30m and pick up a contact. I have only tried on contacts moving towards me but anyways. I start plotting the bearings and everything is fine. Before I can get to the 3rd bearing a different ship becomes the closest contact and I cant get bearing readings from the sonarman on the original contact anymore. If i have him follow the contact I cant get a bearing reading when I need it. It is a pain in the ass to manually figure out the bearing on the hydrophone, having to find the spread and then find the average. Am I doing something wrong? All the video tuts and stuff only have one contact around... they never ever have a different contact become the closest. Range readings from sonar pings and estimates are trash. I am having a REALLY hard time finding stuff to blow up. Any tips? Also can you use the 4 bearings method and intercept a target moving away from you? Ill keep trying but A response would be MUCH APPRECIATED. THanks.

12-19-11, 12:07 PM	#2
Dogfish40 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: LA Area, Central coast, California Posts: 1,023 Downloads: 827 Uploads: 0	Ahoy Steakbbq (cool name) I never really counted on the hydrophones for an accurate range. The best that they are able to do is give you a general range but even better course. If I mark the end point of the contact line with an X. Then do the same after a given amount of minutes, then draw a line dissecting both, I have a reasonable enemy course. (It's also good to be somewhat zoomed in on the map). I never have had to ping a range at this point because I'm concerned with my interception course. Once we're close enough, Everything comes together. In visual range, I get all the data I need. If there is another ship in the area (closer) Jump on those phones yourself to find your contacts heading. If it disappears you may have to turn to port or starboard to reacquire the contact you want, (depending on which type of hydrophone you have installed on your boat). My point is, in the war, the Hydrophones were only a basic instrument to get a contact. They were not very accurate at that time and even when I plot a course for the enemy ship, I usually find that my line is off up to 100 meters or more and I don't really know that until I have a visual. After some time, I think you'll get to love what the hydrophones are capable of. I'm count our blessings that we have them. Hope any of this helps and Good Luck Herr Kaleun. __________________ *Dogfish40*

12-19-11, 04:07 PM	#7
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	To answer about targets moving away. Theoretically, yes, with uber-accurate bearing lines it works also when the target is moving away and allready quite far. But since the bearing drift slows down as the target moves away it is difficult to get enough difference in bearing direction. Then the lines become more and more parallel as time moves on. Which is not good for this method. You also risk the target leaving your detection range. But you don't know when that is so don't let it stop you. Besides, Kuikeg developed a 4-bearing method that works when the uboat is moving. So, while on the surface you can usually use superior speed (full or flank) while doing it. For practical use, ... well practise. (And what TDW said) __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

12-19-11, 03:21 PM	#4
steakbbq Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 13 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Hi dogfish. So, what you said makes sense however, I dont have the bearing lines turned on. I am using 100% realism and real navigation and I have the automatic bearing lines off. Hi Trevally, Yes I used your 4 bearing tutorial and it was awesome, really taught me how to do 4 bearings. Just been having a heard time with multiple contacts, also I have been pointing my boat at true north when gettting hydro readings because then your relative bearing is easier, you dont need to calculate I realized that all along I was doing stuff right though.. I got a couple 4 bearings solved and had range and heading, realized that it was some kind of shipping lane and went there to camp it. up hunting a cap ship right now though... havent even fire a torpedo on this campaign yet and its like sep 11/12 lol. ahhh. that makes sense about hydro scrambling targets or if it is dogged off. i started watching das boot last night... an AWESOME movie! yea i have the sh5 exe fix another question, can the enemy hear the ping when you do depth under keel?

12-19-11, 05:22 PM	#8
sparrs A-ganger Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 75 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	As mentioned I also use the pencil marker on a hydrophone contact, then leave a few minutes and place again, then draw a ruler line through them both to get the estimate course. Then use periscope to get the visual and range. Also ruler can estimate range from your sub to marker, so you still have some idea.