BBQ, Help

[Krauter]

Well, since I figured this forum is filled with men (and some Fraus too) I figured I should at least ask for some help.

Ever since I moved out and started living by myself, I've had to cook steaks with a grill.. obviously this wasnt very tasty or fun. So for Christmas I asked for a BBQ.

Now, fast forward to New Years, and my girlfriend is up visiting. I decide to buy some nice steaks and do them on the BBQ. As it's not a huge BBQ (but a 'tail gate' one to fit on my balcony) I have some trouble gauging how best to cook things. The steaks turned out very well done, and very chewy..

Any tips or things I could do to cook steaks better? I heard that you should only turn them twice and cook them for 4 minutes on each side and then put them on a top rack with low heat to cook them to Medium or Well done. As its a 'tail-gate' BBQ I don't have a top rack..

Cheers,

Krater

[Rockstar]

I was taught and have always practiced turning the steaks and pretty much anything else on the grill with two sides, including sliced veggies only ONCE. Don't salt raw steak meat on the grill but wait to do it on a cooked side otherwise you get that nasty coagulated blood festering to the top.

The amount of time per side depends on the thickness of the steak.

Also very important get the grill up to temp before putting anything on it and set it up for a direct grilling

-----> Find a good grillin' bible by Steven Raichlen http://www.barbecuebible.com/

[Takeda Shingen]

For me, it's really important to get that good sear on both sides first. I cook with a good old-fashioned black Webber charcaol grill. What I will do is place them in the center with the lid off first for about two minutes per side. With the juices sealed in, I then move them off to the cooler perimeter and place the lid back on. I do about two more minutes per side for medium rare and 4 per side for medium. Of course, the thickness of the steak will play a major factor in the time. I usually do thicker cuts on the grill.

I don't eat meat, but you do, so you can use a trick until you start to get the feel for it. Take a plate outside and cut into the steak that you will eat. That way, you can see what is going on inside the steaks and not mangle your guests' meals. In any case, the most important part is that the hot part of your grill is hot, and I mean really hot. Searing the outside without cooking the inside is critical to keeping your steaks moist regardless how 'done' they want them, and giving them that very appealing chared texture and appearance that one would expect from steaks on the grill.

EDIT: Rockstar, Steven Raichlen is the freaking man.

[Krauter]

Hey thanks for the quick replies guys

Just finished my meal for tonight. Here's results and what I did.

Turned propane BBQ on high, for 5 minutes (to get it hot). While waiting, I took the steak (raw) on a cutting board, and put on Montreal steak spice, rubbing it in both sides. Afterwards, I took it outside, turned BBQ down just underneath 'Medium' and put it in the centre. Because the last time I cooked between Medium and High for 4 minutes each side, I decided to turn it down a tad and cook longer. This time was Medium for 10 minutes each side.

What turned out was, when I went outside to turn them, all the juice had risen and kind of coagulated at the top (making the steak a little dry..) After turning it twice, I cut into it and found it was still a little too pink for me so I put it back on (Cut side UP) and let it sit for 5 more minutes. Eating it now, it tastes great, maybe a tad too spicy but its great. It's kind of dry but that's about it.

Don't salt raw steak meat on the grill but wait to do it on a cooked side otherwise you get that nasty coagulated blood festering to the top.

So what your saying is I should spice the steaks while they're on the grill already? How does this stop the blood from coagulating on top?

What I will do is place them in the center with the lid off first for about two minutes per side.

So cook them on high with lid off until they're seared? Will this stop the juice from rising to the top and coagulating?

Take a plate outside and cut into the steak that you will eat.

The only problem with this is that I like the look of presenting a meal (with guests here) where the steaks are whole and not mangled . Are there any tricks to knowing how long it takes to get rare, medium, well done steaks? Or is it only a matter of knowing your grill and experience?

In any case, the most important part is that the hot part of your grill is hot, and I mean really hot.

The only problem with this, is that when I cook, it doesn't look or feel like the grill is getting all that hot.. Maybe because its something like -25~30 or maybe its just me

Also, is liquified propane (obviously all propane is dangerous) dangerous? Does it run the risk of exploding?
The problem is, while barbecuing I had no problems, however, when I took the tank off prior to eating, the tank still had some escaping gas, while attempting to re-attach it to the propane feed, some liquid propane came out and squirted onto my finger (it went numb and was dam cold). After calling my parents, my dad said just to leave it outside. Because of this, I'm afraid the next time I go try to re-attach the tank, the majority of the tank is going to be liquified.

Thanks for the quick replies!

Krauter

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Krauter

So cook them on high with lid off until they're seared? Will this stop the juice from rising to the top and coagulating?

There will always be some blood rising to the top, but with the heat high enough, you can get that really nice sear before too much of the juice is gone. It is also worth noting that thick cuts will always grill better than thin ones, and it is hard to find the thick cuts this time of year.

The only problem with this is that I like the look of presenting a meal (with guests here) where the steaks are whole and not mangled . Are there any tricks to knowing how long it takes to get rare, medium, well done steaks? Or is it only a matter of knowing your grill and experience?

That's why you pick the one you want for your self and cut it, not your guest's. If you like your's medium rare, and your guest likes medium, you can see how pink your's is and have a pretty good idea of what the inside of your guest's looks like.

The only problem with this, is that when I cook, it doesn't look or feel like the grill is getting all that hot.. Maybe because its something like -25~30 or maybe its just me

Therein lies your problem. You are a using propane grill, which is fine, but your's doesn't sound like a very good one. This is probably compounded by the fact that you are grilling in the winter, and the surrounding air temperature is not helping your grill's lack of 'punch', if you will. It is forcing you to keep the meat on longer (30 minutes is way too long) which is drying out your meat.

Also, is liquified propane (obviously all propane is dangerous) dangerous? Does it run the risk of exploding?
The problem is, while barbecuing I had no problems, however, when I took the tank off prior to eating, the tank still had some escaping gas, while attempting to re-attach it to the propane feed, some liquid propane came out and squirted onto my finger (it went numb and was dam cold). After calling my parents, my dad said just to leave it outside. Because of this, I'm afraid the next time I go try to re-attach the tank, the majority of the tank is going to be liquified.

Thanks for the quick replies!

Krauter

I don't have much experience grilling with gas, but I'd say that you probably don't want to play around with it.

[Krauter]

Aah ok, thanks a lot.

My steak that I had tonight is about an inch thick, maybe a little thinner. Is this thick for a steak?

Yes I understood what you meant But I just meant I like a good presentation on my own meals also

I really thought that was what the problem was. Besides the point that its freaking cold out, the BBQ isnt some huge monster that can grill 10 steaks at once, its only 1ft x 1.5~2ft with not very much heat coming out of it either haha. But thank you for the help.

As for the liquified propane thats leaking, I think I'm just going to dispose of it (at a store or..)

Cheers

Krauter

[gimpy117]

cook it hot and fast my man.

slow and cold makes bad steaks. you wanna sear it fast to keep the juices in

[krashkart]

My advice:

Take all the advice you can get here and practice, practice, practice. And never stop asking for advice. You will find your recipe, and when that happens the rest of the art falls into place.

[NeonSamurai]

I can tell you guys the 'professional' way it is done as I was trained when I studied at Le Cordon Bleu.

Ok first off, never salt any meat going onto a grill, griddle, or fry-pan; Salt extracts juices from the meat and makes it tougher. Ditto for herbs unless you really like the taste of burnt herbs. Spices can also be a problem too as they can burn and the results may not be desirable (this all depends on type, cut, and thickness). Also it helps if the meat isn't cold to start with.

For grilling (and frying) the procedure is to get the grill to maximum heat (don't forget that it takes time for outdoor bbq's to come up to temperature, like 10 - 15 minutes or more), then sear both sides to seal the meat (meat should color a bit). If you are serving it blue, its done, otherwise you will now flip it back over to the starting side and turn the heat down to medium/medium low and start the cooking process. If you want to make it look good, make sure you flip it so you get that crosshatching or diamond pattern. You will also want to cook it on each side for the same time length (this takes practice), turning it no more than 4 times in total (once on each side to sear, and again once on each side to cook). If I am seasoning the meat with spices I would add them some time around this point on each side. Herbs I would add using a herb butter when serving, salt only gets put on when serving. Also letting it rest is also important so that the juices migrate back into the cooked area, ~5 minutes in a warm oven works well. Also put the meat on warmed plates (oven at lowest setting, or back side of the plate under the hot water tap) so it does not cool down fast.

There are 3 ways of telling doneness for steaks, cut it and look, use a thermometer, or touch it. Pros use the touch method as it is by far the most accurate, and it does not leave any cuts or holes. This is done by pressing down in the center of the meat from the top while it is on the grill. With practice you can tell doneness very accurately by doing this, but the general rule of thumb I was taught was to touch each finger one by one to your thumb and feel the resistance in the muscle between your thumb and index. Thumb and index is rare, thumb and pinky is well done (results may vary though).

We also did not use thermometers for roasting meat, or birds for that matter. Birds we would check by using a skewer, poking into the thickest part of the bird to the bone (leg or thigh), and pressing against the hole to see what color juice came out (clear is what we wanted). For roast meat we would use a skewer to the center of the meat, then touch the tip to the underside of the lip to feel how hot it was.


Btw flipping it once per side is not considered a good idea (blue or very thin steaks are the exception), and will toughen and curl the meat. The reason is that the juice in the meat flows away from the heat, and you want that juice to stay in the center so that it does not escape (and make the meat tough). Do it too long on one side and you will see juice start to seep out on the top of the meat, eventually forming a pool. Searing will help keep it in a bit too.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

I can tell you guys the 'professional' way it is done as I was trained when I studied at Le Cordon Bleu.

Ok first off, never salt any meat going onto a grill, griddle, or fry-pan; Salt extracts juices from the meat and makes it tougher. Ditto for herbs unless you really like the taste of burnt herbs. Spices can also be a problem too as they can burn and the results may not be desirable (this all depends on type, cut, and thickness). Also it helps if the meat isn't cold to start with.

For grilling (and frying) the procedure is to get the grill to maximum heat (don't forget that it takes time for outdoor bbq's to come up to temperature, like 10 - 15 minutes or more), then sear both sides to seal the meat (meat should color a bit). If you are serving it blue, its done, otherwise you will now flip it back over to the starting side and turn the heat down to medium/medium low and start the cooking process. If you want to make it look good, make sure you flip it so you get that crosshatching or diamond pattern. You will also want to cook it on each side for the same time length (this takes practice), turning it no more than 4 times in total (once on each side to sear, and again once on each side to cook). If I am seasoning the meat with spices I would add them some time around this point on each side. Herbs I would add using a herb butter when serving, salt only gets put on when serving. Also letting it rest is also important so that the juices migrate back into the cooked area, ~5 minutes in a warm oven works well. Also put the meat on warmed plates (oven at lowest setting, or back side of the plate under the hot water tap) so it does not cool down fast.

There are 3 ways of telling doneness for steaks, cut it and look, use a thermometer, or touch it. Pros use the touch method as it is by far the most accurate, and it does not leave any cuts or holes. This is done by pressing down in the center of the meat from the top while it is on the grill. With practice you can tell doneness very accurately by doing this, but the general rule of thumb I was taught was to touch each finger one by one to your thumb and feel the resistance in the muscle between your thumb and index. Thumb and index is rare, thumb and pinky is well done (results may vary though).

We also did not use thermometers for roasting meat, or birds for that matter. Birds we would check by using a skewer, poking into the thickest part of the bird to the bone (leg or thigh), and pressing against the hole to see what color juice came out (clear is what we wanted). For roast meat we would use a skewer to the center of the meat, then touch the tip to the underside of the lip to feel how hot it was.

I had no idea that you studied at Le Courdon Bleu. Awesome!

I had always assumed about not salting (salt dries things out) and searing to seal, but your post confirms that for me. I never season or marinate any meat that I am grilling.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I had no idea that you studied at Le Courdon Bleu. Awesome!

I had always assumed about not salting (salt dries things out) and searing to seal, but your post confirms that for me. I never season or marinate any meat that I am grilling.

Ya I did high french cuisine and pastry (includes candies, chocolates, and anything else of a desert nature). It was career 1 until I found that I got payed the same working in a good restaurant, as working as a pizza cook in a bar. Neither payed much, so I went on to career 2 (computers), and then 3 (clinical psych/social work).

There are times when you would marinade, or do seasoning rubs (like ribs), but this is often done with fast cooking (fish or thin cuts), or pre-cooked items. Marinades with salt can also be done, as the marinade will not draw the juice out (assuming there is water content in the marinade) so readily, but marinades with acids will start the cooking process (in fact you can actually fully cook thin cuts of fish, only using acid like lemon or vinegar). Otherwise with anything else salt goes in the beginning (professionally I was trained to salt to 'perfection' where the salt brings out the maximum flavor) after any saute-ing is done.

Originally Posted by tater

There are 2 camps on seasoning. One says salt early, one late. I salt early.

As for "searing the juices in" it's easy to demonstrate this is wrong. You can sear a steak, and cook one at lower heat for longer. Weigh both steaks before you cook them, and cook to identical target temperatures. Weigh both after. See if there is a difference in wight with each method.

The difference in weight would be minimal at best as the amount of juice you loose is about a couple of tablespoons. Most scales wouldn't even pick up the difference.

Searing doesn't really seal the juices in, though it will help a bit in keeping them in longer, particularly as the searing process drives the juices on the outside towards the center. Frankly I think it is mostly done for the caramelizing effect, and then the effect of driving juice inward. It is also how you get the first hash mark. Plus it helps prevent curling.

"Slow" for a steak doesn't mean hours, it means not blazing hot, and for a little longer time. Slow cook steaks are usually thick. I never buy steaks under 1.5 inches thick, and ideally 2". Lower temp and slower works just fine. I have done this and get cut with a fork steaks with a nice crust, though I usually sear, then move to over to finish since that's how I started doing it, and it feels more normal. For thick "slow" is worth a try for sure.

From my training I would cook anything over ~1/2 inch "slow" as you put it, or not on high heat, really thick cuts would go down even lower. Also if you are going for well done you need to drop the temperature a bit more so that the outside isn't burned.

Remember that on the outside of the steak you want it caramelized, not "charred." Brown (even very dark brown) is good, black means you're doing it wrong ("cept for the "grill" marks if grilling, those get pretty dark, I'm talking the overall non-striped part).

I agree though I tend to avoid really dark brown. One should also avoid any curling or liquid pooling on the top as that is a severe sign that the meat is being cooked too long on one side.

I never get anything "icky" with salting before hand, and I salt pretty liberally. I salt the steaks when I take em out of the fridge, too. They have salt for ~1 hour before cooking. It pulls water out of the surface—which is what "aging" does (concentrating flavor by reducing some of the water).

Have you ever tried not salting them until after they are cooked? As the salt pulls more than just water to the surface, and also that water is what helps keep meat tender (as opposed to tough). I would suggest trying it some time, take two identical cuts, salt one normally, and salt the other only when serving it. You should notice a good difference between them with the other one being more tender and juicer. Though perhaps you just prefer your meat that way.

Also aging is not entirely done for what you suggest, Aging decays the meat a bit and causes the muscle mass to relax from rigor mortis and break down due to enzymes. Dry aging does reduce the water content, but the area that looses most of the moisture is discarded. Also the steak gains tenderness even though it has lost ~10% of its moisture content, because of the muscle tissue breaking down, otherwise loss of moisture = greater toughness. Lastly they do not salt the meat, as salting it would draw out the moisture too fast and draw juices (flavor) with it. Water lost during aging is lost from slow evaporation at near freezing temperatures.

[Krauter]

OK, so don't salt the meat before cooking it. Does this also apply to spices (I have either Montreal Steak spice that I just sprinkle on both sides of the steak and rub in) or I have another steak rub that I use the same method.

What way do I apply said spices and, when do I apply these spices?

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

With practice you can tell doneness very accurately by doing this, but the general rule of thumb I was taught was to touch each finger one by one to your thumb and feel the resistance in the muscle between your thumb and index. Thumb and index is rare, thumb and pinky is well done (results may vary though).

That is an awesome tip. Thanks.

I've experimened with different techniques of cooking steaks-sometimes they are expensive experiments.

From what I've read and what has seemed to work best for me is the technique you talk about-Heat the grill 10-15 minutes, sear both sides, turn down the heat to medium, and cook to desired doneness(turning once more). Then let the meat rest.
I haven't quite perfected my technique bit I'm getting better.