can you "duel" other submarines in game?

[the_tyrant]

is it possible to sink other subs while submerged?
just like what we see in the movies

[CaptainMattJ.]

no. at least not in stock.

with mods its.....possible. not sure is RFB includes em im pretty sure that TMO includes one mission that involves fighting a sub. not very action-packed though.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

is it possible to sink other subs while submerged?
just like what we see in the movies

No. The movies are just that, the movies, particuarlly when it comes to WW2 technology.

The only time a submarine is able to sink another submarine, in game, or in real life as far as WW2 goes, is when sub A is able to get detect, and approach undetected, Sub B. At which point Sub A will attack Sub B, like any other surfaced ship. If Sub B detects Sub A before it can attack and submerges, the fight is basically over.

Now, "just like what we see in the movies", ... U-571 comes to mind. Here's the problem with the submerged duel scene.

Our entreped hero's only know the attacking sub's relative bearing. It was a sonar contact only. As most here know, historically, attacking by sonar bearings alone didn't really work. What was missing was:
The other uboats:
- speed
- EXACT bearing,
- Angle on the bow, and relative course he was travelling.

On top of that, they'd also need one addtional piece of info.
-Depth.

In U571, they had not one piece of that information, other then a relative sound bearing. In the real world, there is no way those fish would have hit like they did in the movie.

edit:

The best anology for a WW2 "sub duel" is to blind fold two men, give them each a baseball bat, put them in a dark room 20feet by 20 feet in dimensions, and have them try and hit each other.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

No. The movies are just that, the movies, particuarlly when it comes to WW2 technology.

The only time a submarine is able to sink another submarine, in game, or in real life as far as WW2 goes, is when sub A is able to get detect, and approach undetected, Sub B. At which point Sub A will attack Sub B, like any other surfaced ship. If Sub B detects Sub A before it can attack and submerges, the fight is basically over.

Now, "just like what we see in the movies", ... U-571 comes to mind. Here's the problem with the submerged duel scene.

Our entreped hero's only know the attacking sub's relative bearing. It was a sonar contact only. As most here know, historically, attacking by sonar bearings alone didn't really work. What was missing was:
The other uboats:
- speed
- EXACT bearing,
- Angle on the bow, and relative course he was travelling.

On top of that, they'd also need one addtional piece of info.
-Depth.

In U571, they had not one piece of that information, other then a relative sound bearing. In the real world, there is no way those fish would have hit like they did in the movie.

edit:

The best anology for a WW2 "sub duel" is to blind fold two men, give them each a baseball bat, put them in a dark room 20feet by 20 feet in dimensions, and have them *TRY* and hit each other.

well, so what? they fired a spread. they knew they where *around* 90 degrees to the S boat so they turned 90 degrees and fired a spread of 4 torpedos. instinctively the uboat turned, and in the process accidentally slid their conning tower into the incoming torpedo. they also assumed they were at periscope depth, and they themselves were at periscope depth.

its not IMPOSSIBLE, just HIGHLY HIGHLY improbable with 1 torpedo. a spread makes the chances a little better, but still like you said theyhas a VERY high chance of missing. plus, if the american uboat's torpedo didnt hit te other one, theydve been forced to do a 180 and fire a stern shot that wouldve had a 99% of missing. then they wouldve been at a stalemate so to speak. loading torps takes quite a while, and if they both stayed up there rather then 1 plunging below periscope depth then it wouldve led to them both being at a stalemate. until they surfaced, then theyd have a deck gun war which the other uboat wouldve won.

but its a movie........

[Schwieger]

You guys know that I-29, I-168 and I-351 were sunk by American subs right? And that SS-226 was sunk by a Japanese submarine?

That should help flush out your list

[razark]

Originally Posted by Schwieger

You guys know that I-29, I-168 and I-351 were sunk by American subs right? And that SS-226 was sunk by a Japanese submarine?

That should help flush out your list

Which of those involved two submerged submarines?

[sergei]

Originally Posted by Schwieger

You guys know that I-29, I-168 and I-351 were sunk by American subs right? And that SS-226 was sunk by a Japanese submarine?

That should help flush out your list

As has already been stated, there were dozens of subs sunk by other subs in WW2.
But in all but one case (U-864) the sub that was attacked was running on the surface.
U-864 was the only submerged sub torpedoed by another sub.
And even then, the only way HMS Venturer could track her well enough for a firing solution was because she was snorkelling.

The technology of the time was just not good enough for fully submerged sub v's sub combat.

[tater]

Ducimus, rather than a bat, give each of them a ball or two, and make the room big enough the balls can't bounce into anyone. Oh, and have the room filled with step ladders, so the guys are not required to be at the same level

[razark]

How about a comprehensive list of all submerged submarines sunk by another submerged submarine? That should give some idea of how realistic it is.

Here is the list:
U-864

In two World Wars, and all the time since, only one submerged submarine sinking another. I'd say that speaks to the difficulty of the feat.

[the_tyrant]

well i was thinking The hunt for red October kind sub duel, i know cold war subs work differently than WWII subs, but can't the mk 27 cutie sink subs?

[ETR3(SS)]

Any torpedo can sink a sub in SH4. The problem again comes back to depth. The Mk 27 doesn't change depth after it reaches its preset depth. Without knowing what depth the only sub is at you can't accurately launch an attack.

[sergei]

Originally Posted by razark

How about a comprehensive list of all submerged submarines sunk by another submerged submarine? That should give some idea of how realistic it is.

Here is the list:
U-864

Good answer Razark.

[Whippy]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

The best anology for a WW2 "sub duel" is to blind fold two men, give them each a baseball bat, put them in a dark room 20feet by 20 feet in dimensions, and have them try and hit each other.

If they are in a dark room, why blindfold them?

[WernherVonTrapp]

can you "duel" other submarines in game?

Somehow when I try to picture that, I see a couple of 3 toed sloths, in opposing trees no less, dueling over the same mango.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

No. The movies are just that, the movies, particuarlly when it comes to WW2 technology.

The only time a submarine is able to sink another submarine, in game, or in real life as far as WW2 goes, is when sub A is able to get detect, and approach undetected, Sub B. At which point Sub A will attack Sub B, like any other surfaced ship. If Sub B detects Sub A before it can attack and submerges, the fight is basically over.

Now, "just like what we see in the movies", ... U-571 comes to mind. Here's the problem with the submerged duel scene.

Our entreped hero's only know the attacking sub's relative bearing. It was a sonar contact only. As most here know, historically, attacking by sonar bearings alone didn't really work. What was missing was:
The other uboats:
- speed
- EXACT bearing,
- Angle on the bow, and relative course he was travelling.

On top of that, they'd also need one addtional piece of info.
-Depth.

In U571, they had not one piece of that information, other then a relative sound bearing. In the real world, there is no way those fish would have hit like they did in the movie.

but but but are you saying that the movie U-571 was not realistic????