More newbie questions - this time: anti-air tactics.

[ppk]

So what's the word on that? I've seen quite a few articles about evading early war & late war DDs but the ones I read didn't say much about anti-air at all. Can you fight your way out on the surface with the big quad flak you can get in late war or is it just not worth the risk? And what about early war? I haven't encountered many aircraft so far and only one has attacked me (and damaged my boat..). My crewmen definitely need to improve their marksmanship because they couldn't hit it at all and i got bombed... survived though, but i was still damaged.

[GoldenRivet]

even if you shoot down an airplane you will almost always suffer heavy damage or casualties.

in the stock game, gun crews were almost invincible to gunfire. fact is there is little protection for an AA gunner or deck gunner on a u-boat.

so, GWX scaled the AA gunner invincibility way down to virtually nothing.

this coincides with history as most u-boat sinkings were credited to aircraft.

remember - tracers go both ways!

and the machine guns on aircraft range from 30 caliber up to and occasionally beyond 20 mm. - thats a little bit smaller than a golf ball

even with a U-Flak tower... chances are - coming away clean are very slim, especially late war when air to surface rockets start showing up.

the rockets are fast as hell - and they pack enough punch to destroy entire compartments with a single hit. and most planes equipped with them begin to travel in packs of two.

you wont see many aircraft up until about 1943... after that you will probably see more planes than ships.

U-boats are NOT anti-aircraft platforms... and should not be used as such. its very hard to hit a fast moving airborne target from a pitching and rolling U-Boat tower.

always crash dive.

[Wreford-Brown]

Alaarrrmm!

[Brag]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

U-boats are NOT anti-aircraft platforms... and should not be used as such. its very hard to hit a fast moving airborne target from a pitching and rolling U-Boat tower.

always crash dive.

EXACTLY!!!!!

[ppk]

Well then why bother having all those big guns? I know it doesn't make a difference in GWX but in real life, that big U-Flak conning tower must have caused loads of drag and reduce performance underwater. Did they think they [german engineers or whoever it is that decided this] could survive on the surface at the time?

[Piggy]

Originally Posted by ppk

Well then why bother having all those big guns? I know it doesn't make a difference in GWX but in real life, that big U-Flak conning tower must have caused loads of drag and reduce performance underwater. Did they think they [german engineers or whoever it is that decided this] could survive on the surface at the time?

U-Flak Boats were used to escort normal U-boats in and out of port, Im not sure if these boats ever went out on actual patrols.

I think they only converted 4, at first they were pretty successfull at giving the RAF a nasty surprise, but eventaully the allies just used different tactics.

The flak boats were converted back to regular VII's...

I tried duking it out with a plane in 42 east of gibralter, I shot it down but lost my gunner in the process, not to mention some other damages.

Not worth it, just dive.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by ppk

Well then why bother having all those big guns? I know it doesn't make a difference in GWX but in real life, that big U-Flak conning tower must have caused loads of drag and reduce performance underwater. Did they think they [german engineers or whoever it is that decided this] could survive on the surface at the time?

High command decided at various times in the war that u-boats should fight it out
on the surface near port. Even with large groups of u-boats and u-flaks it was a
total disaster.

The order to fight it out when following a convoy was also dropped after numerous
sinking.

[Red Heat]

Originally Posted by Letum

High command decided at various times in the war that u-boats should fight it out
on the surface near port. Even with large groups of u-boats and u-flaks it was a
total disaster.

The order to fight it out when following a convoy was also dropped after numerous
sinking.

Its prove for many times...the U-boat in the surface against a plane dont have the any chance, its beter to dive to avoid heavy damage and compromise the mission and your war patrol!

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by ppk

Well then why bother having all those big guns? I know it doesn't make a difference in GWX but in real life, that big U-Flak conning tower must have caused loads of drag and reduce performance underwater. Did they think they [german engineers or whoever it is that decided this] could survive on the surface at the time?

QUESTION: When you are sending teenage kids on a suicide mission... how do you make them feel better about their odds?

ANSWER: put big ass guns all over whatever it is they are driving.

they will probably go out to sea never to return... but they still go out to sea.

the fact that AA guns were ever put on submarines at all is a real head scratcher

[Schöneboom]

Using a Type IXD with flakvierling turret, I found that even running at flank and turning, shootouts with bombers almost always results in damage to the boat. With multiple attacks, even if you're lucky, hull damage accumulates to the point where RTB is the only realistic option.

One of the more hair-raising moments recently: loading external torpedoes fore & aft, with engines stopped. Along comes a B-24, and in keeping with realism, I cannot dive at once! Nasty, very nasty!

[Mittelwaechter]

Best option: DIVE!

If you have to stay at the surface (maybe because you are loading external torpedos), there are some aspects to consider:
- try to show your broadside to the incoming airplane/s. It's easy for them to aim the correct direction, but it's harder to chose the right drop point. Often they drop short or the bombs fly over your head. It's way easier to hit your boat approaching from the back or the front. Remember your gunners refuse to shoot over your tower.
- change your speed. I prefer to go at half speed until they start to dive and shoot - then I speed up to flank.
- change your course slightly into their direction (~ 20°) when they start their attack. It's harder to keep aim on you.
- don't waste ammunition by shooting over far distances. The gunners accuracy is quite bad (GWX 2.0), but you may hit a score at short distances.
- shoot at incoming airplanes for best results. My boys never hit the leaving bees.
- try to man the guns in the last moment to keep your crew more or less safely.
- have a repaircrew ready - you'll need them.

Last week I managed to down two Mosquitos southwest of Ireland. It's summer of '43 and they pinned some holes into our trusty VIIB/2 but we gladly made it.
This career we lost already three AA gunners and three men of the torpedo reloading team. (I man the deckgun for reloading externals and stay surfaced the last 20 minutes)

[Red Heat]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

even if you shoot down an airplane you will almost always suffer heavy damage or casualties.

in the stock game, gun crews were almost invincible to gunfire. fact is there is little protection for an AA gunner or deck gunner on a u-boat.

so, GWX scaled the AA gunner invincibility way down to virtually nothing.

this coincides with history as most u-boat sinkings were credited to aircraft.

remember - tracers go both ways!

and the machine guns on aircraft range from 30 caliber up to and occasionally beyond 20 mm. - thats a little bit smaller than a golf ball

even with a U-Flak tower... chances are - coming away clean are very slim, especially late war when air to surface rockets start showing up.

the rockets are fast as hell - and they pack enough punch to destroy entire compartments with a single hit. and most planes equipped with them begin to travel in packs of two.

you wont see many aircraft up until about 1943... after that you will probably see more planes than ships.

U-boats are NOT anti-aircraft platforms... and should not be used as such. its very hard to hit a fast moving airborne target from a pitching and rolling U-Boat tower.

always crash dive.

I think you said all...

[Graf Paper]

As the wise sensei, Sunabōzu, has said...

"Remember kids, a wise man knows...when to run like a little b*tch!"

That more or less sums up the entire book of defensive tactics for u-boat commanders.
:p

[papa_smurf]

Dive! Dive! Dive!

[meduza]

Dive. Or else...