[REL] Traveller Mod for TMO

[LCQ_SH]

Another quick one....

Why sonar stations is not available while surfaced?? WCA sonar historically could be used on surface at low speeds...

[Admiral Halsey]

Just wanted to ask those who use it a question. Why don't you have the Midway Transfer enabled? After all you get to Japan faster and can stay a couple of extra days off the home islands. Which in turn might net some more tonnage if you're lucky.

[eers75]

Originally Posted by LCQ_SH

Another quick one....

Why sonar stations is not available while surfaced?? WCA sonar historically could be used on surface at low speeds...

I have recently returned to silent hunter after a long break and im interested in this as well.

I am by no means a technical reference on this at all but in doing some reading and researching it looks like that passive sonar was capable while surfaced due to the devices being mounted on the keel on US subs? <--- Im sure the very knowledgeable skippers out there can confirm/deny this as again im not very sure.

If anyone knows the files to look in I would be interested in making some modifications for my own personal use with regards to not having any sonar capabilities while surfaced.

This is of course if passive sonar was capable during WWII while surfaced. I like to play with as much realism as I can and am interested in this.

Im somewhat familiar with how to modify files but cant seem to locate how to enable/modify this aspect of the mod. Just a personal preference but again if this is historically accurate Id like to enable sonar while surfaced.

Literally I have just returned yesterday to silent hunter simming so I will do some more reading on the historical references on this topic to see if I can come up with an answer on my own.

[mobucks]

there was a post on how to make the changes but I can't find it. I'll try to explain it the best I can.

you will need silent3ditor to make the changes.

first make a copy of Sensors_sub_US.sim found in data/library/USSubParts

open silent3ditor and open your copy of Sensors_sub_US.sim

on the left hand pane click the + next to 46:SensorData

click the 47:SensorData to open the sensor info on the right side pane

You should see SensorType=Hydrophone on the first line of the property tree
click the line that says

MaxSensorHeight=

I think the value for Traveller's Mod was -15.

Under Property Details at the bottom you will see a Value input box. Change the -15 to something like -1 which is what base TMO 2.5 uses.

Do the same thing for SensorData 48/49, 52/53, and 66/67. These are the other types of hydrophones in the game. You can double check that they are hydrophones by verifying SensorType=Hydrophone in the property tree.

Not sure but, I think one of these hydrophones was not an underwater one (the one for the S-Boats) but after these changes I think it will be.

Save the file, make a folder structure for something like MySensors/Data/Library/USSubParts and drop it in your MODS folder and activate with JSGME.

Happy Sailing

[eers75]

Originally Posted by mobucks

there was a post on how to make the changes but I can't find it. I'll try to explain it the best I can.

you will need silent3ditor to make the changes.

first make a copy of Sensors_sub_US.sim found in data/library/USSubParts

open silent3ditor and open your copy of Sensors_sub_US.sim

on the left hand pane click the + next to 46:SensorData

click the 47:SensorData to open the sensor info on the right side pane

You should see SensorType=Hydrophone on the first line of the property tree
click the line that says

MaxSensorHeight=

I think the value for Traveller's Mod was -15.

Under Property Details at the bottom you will see a Value input box. Change the -15 to something like -1 which is what base TMO 2.5 uses.

Do the same thing for SensorData 48/49, 52/53, and 66/67. These are the other types of hydrophones in the game. You can double check that they are hydrophones by verifying SensorType=Hydrophone in the property tree.

Not sure but, I think one of these hydrophones was not an underwater one (the one for the S-Boats) but after these changes I think it will be.

Save the file, make a folder structure for something like MySensors/Data/Library/USSubParts and drop it in your MODS folder and activate with JSGME.

Happy Sailing

Im familiar with the files you are mentioning and ive been looking through them. I will give this a try and post back if I get this working. Your post and information is most appreciated.

EDIT: Update on this as your directions were spot on and its now working for me on the surface. Thank you very much for your information. Now for some reading material for me tonight at bed time im going to try and find out if I can how surfaced US subs used/utilized passive sonar in WWII.

[eers75]

One last hurdle with this I believe. I have the sonar working on the surface however the sonar comman bar is still all greyed out. Currently im going to look in to the crew files to see if its deactivated there but would anyone know how to make these command bars active again?

I can use the sonar just fine but my sound man is taking an extended break while surfaced it seems.

[mobucks]

Hmm, that's weird. What boat are you running?

Does the command bar activate at periscope depth?

I did the modifications exactly as I laid out in my post, and it worked with a save I had during a patrol. (no need to activate in base)

You input a negative (-1) 1 right? not just 1?

Maybe start a new patrol and see if that clears it up.

[eers75]

Originally Posted by mobucks

Hmm, that's weird. What boat are you running?

Does the command bar activate at periscope depth?

I did the modifications exactly as I laid out in my post, and it worked with a save I had during a patrol. (no need to activate in base)

You input a negative (-1) 1 right? not just 1?

Maybe start a new patrol and see if that clears it up.

Yes all the values mentioned are -1.0. I am running tmo/rsrd/traveller as my main mods and installed in that order along with appropriate patches for tmo/rsrd/traveller. My JSGME is something like the following:

tmo
tmo small patch
rsrd (I forget version but I am running appropriate one)
rsrd patch
traveller mod
harder ai patrols traveller mod
improved environment
improved environment patch for traveller
Then lastly installed was the mod that I changed the values to -1.0 as above

The sonar commands do indeed activate at periscope depth but they deactivate (greyed out) surfaced. I am more than likely going to deactivate all mods and reactivate them again just to test this out. I did not try to use this on an existing patrol but a new campaign all together starting from scratch.

If you did the above and you have the sonar commands active while surfaced I have a feeling its just something screwy on my end. Also just to be clear, the sonar does work while surfaced by manual listening etc... its just the sound man along with his commands are not active.

When I get home from work I will report back as to if the deactivation/reactivation works.

EDIT: Actually the more I think about it there was one value I did not change and I bet thats the culprit. There was one sensor that said "Sonar" and had a value of -6.0. I changed all the hydrophone sensors to -1.0 but left the sonar one at -6.0 as I wasnt sure if I needed to change that one. Im going to try to change that one to -1.0 before I deactivate all my mods.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by LCQ_SH

WCA sonar historically could be used on surface at low speeds...

I'm curious to see evidence for that claim. Until the SH4 devs said it was so I never heard anything about this.

Originally Posted by eers75

I am by no means a technical reference on this at all but in doing some reading and researching it looks like that passive sonar was capable while surfaced due to the devices being mounted on the keel on US subs? <--- Im sure the very knowledgeable skippers out there can confirm/deny this as again im not very sure.

Could sonar on destroyers also detect surfaced submarines? All destroyer sonars were mounted beneath the keel, so this should also be theoretically possible. That said, I also have to ask what specific reading and research told you this? I don't recall reading anything like that, though I have to admit I haven't come close to reading everything on the subject.

[eers75]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Could sonar on destroyers also detect surfaced submarines? All destroyer sonars were mounted beneath the keel, so this should also be theoretically possible. That said, I also have to ask what specific reading and research told you this? I don't recall reading anything like that, though I have to admit I haven't come close to reading everything on the subject.

These are just some of the things I read as im not home and dont remember the progression but basically in some combination or the other these links/readings took me to each other via searches. I couldnt find a definitive answer as to how sonar was utilized while surfaced however I found several references and pictures that illustrated the passive sonar part (dont know the technical name) that was mounted on the keel under the forward torpedo room. Here are some of the links I went to.

http://www.bowfin.org/submarine/46/83-sonar
http://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=7qz...arines&f=false
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/sonar/chap14.htm

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I'm curious to see evidence for that claim. Until the SH4 devs said it was so I never heard anything about this.

O'Kane stated that they used sonar to listen on the surface, while still, to guard against the possibility that enemy subs could sneak up on them. I don't think he said what model it was, though.

[mobucks]

I got my first convoy crash early 1943. Something is broken, no idea how to troubleshoot to fix it. If I were to guess, it would be one of the escorts or maybe a troop ship, as I haven't seen all of those, but have seen pretty much every tanker and cargo ship thus far.

Originally Posted by eers75

EDIT: Actually the more I think about it there was one value I did not change and I bet thats the culprit. There was one sensor that said "Sonar" and had a value of -6.0. I changed all the hydrophone sensors to -1.0 but left the sonar one at -6.0 as I wasnt sure if I needed to change that one. Im going to try to change that one to -1.0 before I deactivate all my mods.

Don't do that. That isn't the problem.

[eers75]

Originally Posted by mobucks

Don't do that. That isn't the problem.

I put it back to its value originally and you are correct that didnt fix it. I deactivated all of the mods listed above and reactivated them and I still do not have the sonar commands active surfaced.

I will keep trying different things but after changing the hydrophone sensor values all to -1.0 my commands are still greyed out.

Ive followed this thread from page one and with regards to late war crashing. While I was searching through the files last night I came across one that had all the ships listed im wondering (I will look later myself) how different this ship list is from lets say tmo for example.

Traveller I believe in at least one post said that he did extensive work to the ships but I dont know if this includes renaming them or not and so im wondering if the late war crash may be as simple as an error in ship name or something. Probably not that simple but one can hope lol.

Edit: As a test I left TMO's Sensor file in from ussubparts and my sonar is still greyed out while surfaced so I have a feeling there is maybe a gui or something else that is greying out the sonar commands, I will keep looking.

[LCQ_SH]

Originally Posted by eers75

Yes all the values mentioned are -1.0. I am running tmo/rsrd/traveller as my main mods and installed in that order along with appropriate patches for tmo/rsrd/traveller. My JSGME is something like the following:

tmo
tmo small patch
rsrd (I forget version but I am running appropriate one)
rsrd patch
traveller mod
harder ai patrols traveller mod
improved environment
improved environment patch for traveller
Then lastly installed was the mod that I changed the values to -1.0 as above

The sonar commands do indeed activate at periscope depth but they deactivate (greyed out) surfaced. I am more than likely going to deactivate all mods and reactivate them again just to test this out. I did not try to use this on an existing patrol but a new campaign all together starting from scratch.

If you did the above and you have the sonar commands active while surfaced I have a feeling its just something screwy on my end. Also just to be clear, the sonar does work while surfaced by manual listening etc... its just the sound man along with his commands are not active.

When I get home from work I will report back as to if the deactivation/reactivation works.

EDIT: Actually the more I think about it there was one value I did not change and I bet thats the culprit. There was one sensor that said "Sonar" and had a value of -6.0. I changed all the hydrophone sensors to -1.0 but left the sonar one at -6.0 as I wasnt sure if I needed to change that one. Im going to try to change that one to -1.0 before I deactivate all my mods.

eers 75, would you share the files needed to be replaced for being able to use the passive sonar while surface? I will appreciate it a lot. I'm just a player and my knowledge on how to dit is cero.


Also, other things I've seen using Travellers Mod is.......why did he suppressed 1 of 2 stern depth charges from DD's? He made this change like a general "refit" to all DD's, so DD's or subchasers who originally have just one stern depth charge rack.....now they don't have any

[eers75]

Originally Posted by LCQ_SH

eers 75, would you share the files needed to be replaced for being able to use the passive sonar while surface? I will appreciate it a lot. I'm just a player and my knowledge on how to dit is cero.

Yes, Im not sure if I can pm it to you or not but I will try. If you have an email that you use you can pm that to me as well and ill try to send it that way. Its a very small file. Also of note, the file im using only lets me on my end use the sonar while surfaced myself meaning that the commands for the sound man etc... are greyed out still. Maybe it wont be like that on your end.

I will not be at my gaming computer for about another hour or so but will attempt to send the file to you then.