[REL] Run Silent, Run Deep - The Campaign

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi lurker
Looking at this from the outside RR is not meaning to disrespect you, or your excellent mod.
He is just stating the facts in a vibrant way that this is what happens when a mod is added to another mod something will stop working if they both want to use the same files.
Players add mods to their game without thinking what happens when one thing overwrites another and then they do not get the game they expect, start complaining which is not the fault of the mods but of their own ignorance most of the time not reading the accompanying documentation.
Anyway nice to have you back again and hope you had a good Christmas.
Peter

[Barkerov]

I've really enjoyed your mod lurker...

[Rockin Robbins]

Lurker, I don't dislike the quality of your modding, only CapnScurvy comes close to you in bug free modding. You have great gameplay quality in your mods, with much testing and perfection on conspicuous display.

My disagreement with RSRDC is in its advertisement as a campaign mod when it is nothing of the sort. In addition to campaign modding you have metasticized the mod into every aspect of the game, enemy AI, torpedoes, I've run through the list before. The bottom line is that RSRDC is NOT a campaign mod at all, but a supermod that squishes other supermods.

To be honest, you should have marketed RSRDC as a supermod, based on TMO (I think that's the best flavor of RSRDC) in the same way as my modding team pushes Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate as a supermod built with the foundation of TMO1.7. The players of FOTRSU don't say they are playing TMO, they say they are playing FOTRSU. If they don't like something, we take the heat and Ducimus is not in the line of fire. If someone has an issue with enemy AI they don't say Ducimus sucks, they say WE suck. And sometimes we do!

However, you pretend RSRDC is a campaign mod. In the meantime it squishes whatever mod it's installed over to the point that Webster (smart man) made a patch to correct some of the stuff (I'm sure it's so complicated he couldn't possibly eliminate all effects outside of campaign) that RSRDC changes about the stock gameplay.

You marketed Op Monsun as a supermod. Why not just have been honest and claimed supermod status for RSRDC? It affects all aspects of the game. It is a coherent experience that transforms just about every aspect of gameplay and eye candy. THAT is a supermod.

When someone plays TMO/RSRDC they're no longer playing TMO. RFB/RSRDC? Same. GFO/RSRDC? Ditto. They're playing flavored RSRDC and that's how it should be promoted. Because suppose someone plays RSRDC and notices that the Momo never appears on radar. They think they're playing TMO. They're not. The Momo in RSRDC has no file to show on radar or visual plot and is invisible. It's an RSRDC problem, not a TMO problem. Furthermore, with all the gameplay changes, if they like the balance of the game, it's not TMO they're happy with, it's RSRDC! But they're off telling how good TMO is. They're wrong. They are not playing TMO.

We're not talking about a mod quality problem. We're talking about a gross error in how it is marketed as opposed to its real function.

Of course I have a second problem with RSRDC and usually discuss it separately so conversations can stay focused. Now as far as its status as a "historical accuracy" mod, my disagreement, again, is not toward the quality of the mod, it is toward the philosophical definition of reality. To me reality is something that is created in real time by the interplay of independently operating entities, reacting to each other's moves, exploiting perceived advantages and opportunities, blocking perceived threats. If the war were to run twice it wouldn't run the same way.

There might be no Battle of Midway. Yamamoto might not have formed such an elitist fighter school, restricting access to the point where the Japanese had so few good pilots. Yamamoto might not have been shot down. The fleet on the way to bomb Pearl Harbor might have run into a storm and never launched the attack. America might have decided to follow the lead of the British, making carriers with steel flight decks that Kamikazes couldn't penetrate. Heck, the US might have elected to copy captured Japanese torpedoes instead of captured German ones. Subs would have been twice as effective.

Shipping would follow different routes, Submarines would be designed differently. Every aspect of the war would run slightly differently if it ran again. Exactly duplicating ship movements that took place in a dynamic time thread of the past does not make a historical war. It makes a freeze dried war, which the player can game, and makes the player operate entirely differently than if he were in the real war. Realism is in the thoughts and actions of the player, not in the positions of the ships, or the ratio of torpedo hits, or the odds of being sunk.

RFB under Beery went down that road to madness. You do the math. Of x number of boats on y number of patrols z number were sunk. So dividing number sunk by number of patrols you get a very small probability of being sunk. Fine. Beery toughened and toughened the boat until it was nearly impossible to sink. Realism! Give the man a cigar.

So, the procedure of fighting a Beery RFB boat was to sit at periscope depth and calmly shoot the merchie while the DDs dropped depth charges all over you. It didn't matter. You were almost perfectly safe. Hey, the numbers didn't lie. But knowing the numbers made the player a total farce in "simulating" the actions of real sub skippers. So with RSRDC.

It's a philosophical disagreement on the meaning of reality. I say reality is in relation to the perceptions and actions of the player. You say reality is in the position and route of enemy ships. Has nothing to do with the quality of your mod, it's fabulous. It does exactly what it was designed to do and it doesn't do it well, it does it excellently. I just disagree with its premise and say so. I said so at kickinback in 2009. Nothing's changed about my position. Has made for some interesting discussions.

[Treetop64]

I'll just chime in and say that I'm a huge fan of the RFB/RSRD combination. Wouldn't bother playing the game without those two and in fact, I manually install them directly into the game instead of using the mod switcher. Any additional "optional" mods, then yeah, I use the switcher.

Anyway, my point is that I don't care if shipping routes, convoys, and formations are generated as they were historically. I actually prefer it that way. In addition, there are still going to be randomly generated merchants that you may or may not encounter.

Thing is, there is more than enough ocean and enough shipping on that ocean to keep things interesting even if you play the campaign multiple times. Though the background historical flowchart may be the same, I've never had the same experiences twice, at least in the campaigns that I was able to survive long enough for that to matter.

For this game, I care more about dealing with the situation within the boat's immediate sphere of influence as they are encountered (as well as the boat and crew themselves), than whether the big picture of the war itself is dynamic and changing to keep things interesting.

From day one, the way I read how RSRD works is exactly how it works, and I'm fine with that. Didn't see anything misleading about it at all, frankly, but that's just me...

[Darthlucky]

I'm late to the party here, but is this a stand alone supermod, or do I need to have TMO installed AND this one, or can I just dl RSRD?

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by Darthlucky

I'm late to the party here, but is this a stand alone supermod, or do I need to have TMO installed AND this one, or can I just dl RSRD?

There are different, exclusively compatible versions. One for Stock SHIV v1.5, one for TMO, and another for RFB.

There is also the patch than can be used on any version of RSRD.

Keep in mind that if you plan on using RSRD with either TMO or RFB, either of the latter two must be installed (or activated via JSGME) first, before installing or activating its compatible version of RSRD.

In any case, install RSRD (or any mod, for that matter) only when you are in your office between patrols, or if you have not yet started a campaign.

Greetings,

I have been playing Silent Hunter 4 now for sometime without incident. I use the following mods by the way.

RFB 2.0
RFB 2.0 Patch
TMOPlot Final

After wanting to try something new a friend told me about this mod RSRD. However, after a few patrols I noticed I am unable to hit anything with my torpedoes now. I believe this mod changes the Stadimeter, because if I un-install the mod I can now hit targets again. Is it possible to revert changes to Stadimeter? I mainly want this because I was told it was a "campaign" mod that fixed problems with the vanilla game spawning ships. I looked in the mods documentation but could not find anything relevant to my issue.

[propbeanie]

Read through lurker's documentation in his Support / RSRDC_ReadMes folder. You should find a RSRDCv5x_readme.doc file that documents what-all he did in the mod. You'll find that by the time v5 came along that it was quite a bit more involved than just a Campaign.

Also, since you have RFB, are you using the one expressly built for it? Last but not least, when you go and start a new career, your Game Play settings from the main menu do not follow you. Once you are in the Captain's Office, with the map on the wall, look to your left and click on the wood-consoled AM band radio box. That will take you to a similar Game Play menu. Be sure your settings for Manual and / or Automatic targetting, torpedo dud settings, fuel, battery, etc., are all the way that you want them for your career... If they are not, go ahead and change them. Come back out into the office, and "Save" the game. Exit, and then re-start, and you should have the settings the way you want them.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Read through lurker's documentation in his Support / RSRDC_ReadMes folder. You should find a RSRDCv5x_readme.doc file that documents what-all he did in the mod. You'll find that by the time v5 came along that it was quite a bit more involved than just a Campaign.

Also, since you have RFB, are you using the one expressly built for it? Last but not least, when you go and start a new career, your Game Play settings from the main menu do not follow you. Once you are in the Captain's Office, with the map on the wall, look to your left and click on the wood-consoled AM band radio box. That will take you to a similar Game Play menu. Be sure your settings for Manual and / or Automatic targetting, torpedo dud settings, fuel, battery, etc., are all the way that you want them for your career... If they are not, go ahead and change them. Come back out into the office, and "Save" the game. Exit, and then re-start, and you should have the settings the way you want them.

Thank you for your reply! Yes I am using the RSRD built for RFB. And installed as per mod author's instructions. After starting a new career I insured my settings were identical to all my last playthroughs. I was unaware so much stuff had been altered, I believe I will just stick with the original campaign for the time being.

[Pepe le Moko]

Are all of the fixes released by tater that I often see recommended in older threads about mods for TMO and RSDC still necessary? Or have these been integrated into RSRD or TMO since then?

example : IJN_Radar_Fix_for_TMO2

posted date : 10-12-2010 It overwrites AI_Sensors.dat in TMO which has itself a 12-23-2011 update.

This mod is particularly confusing because it has 3 versions, one of which is named TMO betapatch. Link to thread : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=175965

[Tucker]

Hey y’all, I have a quick question about RSRD. How are New Constructions/boat upgrades handled. I know in vanilla it’s after every three patrols you are given the option to get a new boat as long as you have had at least one successful patrol in your last three. I am in an S-Boat stationed in Alaska in May 1943 and it’s been 9 patrols and I’m still in my S-Boat. Not once have I been given the option to upgrade. I am fourth overall on tonnage and I’m just worried my boat will be retired and my campaign will end before I get the chance to get a new boat.

I’m running RFB2.0 with the patch and the correct RSRD version to go with it. Is this normal? Or am I doing something wrong/don’t understand how the new constructions work.

Thanks y’all

[Red Devil]

I have just taken a left turn into Confusion Avenue.

All these RFB and 15's - I am lost. This is what is currently housed in my JSGME:

[propbeanie]

You should pull them all back out, and use the one labeled "RSRDC_SH15_V550", then the "RSRDC_V5xxx_Patch", then you can experiment with a few of those other small mods.

You can also do the "TriggerMaru_Overhauled 2-5", the "RSRDC_TMO_V502", and that same "RSRDC_V5xxx_Patch", and then other small mods.

What you have now is the RSRDC intended to go on top of Real Fleet Boats, hence the "RFB" in the name. RFB can be fun also! RFB uses the stock campaign, so RSRDC adds a new campaign layer.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

You should pull them all back out, and use the one labeled "RSRDC_SH15_V550", then the "RSRDC_V5xxx_Patch", then you can experiment with a few of those other small mods.

I am trying these settings out now and found something out. Why cant I contact local friendly ships. I am outside Manila Bay near Maraveles, in the Pollack, the Japs have had Manila for a few weeks and two large american freighters are entering the Bay, to their doom.

[propbeanie]

That is most likely one of the automatic stock "US_" layers that doesn't get overwritten from the Stock version by the RSRDC campaign files.