[REL] Natural Sinking Mechanics

[WernerSobe]

Originally Posted by DyingCrow

i came across weid situation regarding gunboats, ...

i checked the original hitpoint amount for the stock version (50) and your modded version (20480):hmm: that is the same as destroyers i suggest you check this out

you didnt read the first page nor the readme did you? There is enterely new damage system, its no longer based on hitpoints. Hitpoints do not matter at all anymore. Well just read the mod description.

And if you have installed the mod properly i promise that anything smaller then 3000 tons will not survive a single torpedo hit. If its not the case you have conflicts with some other mods.

[DyingCrow]

"Ships will no longer sink by hitpoints but only by physical action, such is flooding and losing bouyancy or balance.."
this works like a charm for all but the examples above, because their structure is just too weak to survive a torpedo. sink by flooding, only if i could gun one down (bad idea gunning a gunboat), even then, i doubt it would survive more them 10 .50 shells wherever they hit (it does), because its only protected against low cal. rounds just like any other coastal/river patrol boat. its kinda like a raft surviving a deck gun round, i dont believe thats possible unless you miss.
if you dont think this is an issue it doesnt matter, because it seems like im the only one that noticed it (maybe im the only raiding ports for sitting ducks :P) overall, your system is perfect. a superb exemple i witnessed was a jap plane tender that sustained heavy damage on the bow after midway, and sailed about 10-15 miles more till it finally went down. merchant ships that before required a lot of shots to be killed, can now be sunk with a few snipes on the waterline, exactly as you intended and how it is supposed to be.
as for mods im only using tmaru (which gladly has the NSM included), so theres no conflicts.

[WernerSobe]

so why are you confused about high hitpoints then? the readme explained why all ships are set above 20000.

Im currently running clean install with just tm 1.6. Shouldnt be the problem. I havent seen small crafts taking more then one torpedo yet. Works as intended. Very small crafts like sampans and fishing boats were not touched by the way. They sink like in stock. It starts with gunboats and small merchants.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by DyingCrow

but i also thought you raised the ships hp to such values so they could only be sunk by loosing floatability, not by just gunning them down. but even gunning them down is effective, if done correctly, as i noticed that a few well placed shots on the waterline, under different compartments, sometimes do the trick, and this is really good.

What you are describing (deck gun shots at the waterline under different compartments) causes flooding in multiple compartments, which reinforces the fact that the mod is achieving the desired result and does not indicate that there is something wrong with it.

I've been using it since day one and, other than the occasionally stubborn large vessels (more of a patience problem with me than any problem with the ship) and the shortlived tanker problem, it's been working wonderfully for me.

[tater]

Werner,

I did a patrol last night using NSM classic (latest version). I managed to get a Minekaze DD mad at me, and he charged me. I fired down the throat and the 2 fish missed.

I was diving as soon as the fish were away rudder over, but he made a pass over my stern and shacked me with 2 DCs. Dead in the water, down at the stern, I figured waiting for a 2d run was certain death, so I blew tanks and surfaced.

That was the back story, lol, here's the part related to NSM.

I'm getting hit by fire the moment I surface, but I man the 3" deck gun, fire 1 shot at the DD... and get an enemy destroyed message. We didn't collide, he hadn't damaged himself with his own DCs. 1 shot, waterline, MOT, and that was it. He took a LONG time to sink. I'm all for critical damage sometimes, but with a 3" shell?

I suppose I should set up minelazes and test it, but I thought I'd let you know just in case.

tater

[WernerSobe]

Originally Posted by tater

Werner,

I did a patrol last night using NSM classic (latest version). I managed to get a Minekaze DD mad at me, and he charged me. I fired down the throat and the 2 fish missed.

I was diving as soon as the fish were away rudder over, but he made a pass over my stern and shacked me with 2 DCs. Dead in the water, down at the stern, I figured waiting for a 2d run was certain death, so I blew tanks and surfaced.

That was the back story, lol, here's the part related to NSM.

I'm getting hit by fire the moment I surface, but I man the 3" deck gun, fire 1 shot at the DD... and get an enemy destroyed message. We didn't collide, he hadn't damaged himself with his own DCs. 1 shot, waterline, MOT, and that was it. He took a LONG time to sink. I'm all for critical damage sometimes, but with a 3" shell?

I suppose I should set up minelazes and test it, but I thought I'd let you know just in case.

tater

ill look at it

[Ducimus]

I beleive its because of the critical flotation settings. I know ive said that before, and i dont mean to sound like a broken record, nor critical of your excellent work, but im 100% positve on the critical flotation variable.

[switch.dota]

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

ill look at it

That happends due to the abandon ship algorithm: once X compartments receive critical damage and the ship is going to sink for certain, the crew will abandon it. If your first shot flooded 2 or more compartments then if the 3" shell breached another, the game would realise that sinking is inevitable and abandon the vessel.

I usually get this often when shooting merchants. A 3-torp spread on one side, vessel doesn't sink, even after a lot of hours. Move to the other side, fire ONE shell below the waterline: enemy destroyed mesage.

[WernerSobe]

i agree critic flotations should be altered. At the moment im short on time to take care of it, if you cant wait just increase critic flotation to 0.3 - 0.5 everywhere.

[tater]

My first shot was my ONLY shot. 1 hit, 1 kill.

tater

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by tater

I'm getting hit by fire the moment I surface, but I man the 3" deck gun, fire 1 shot at the DD... and get an enemy destroyed message. We didn't collide, he hadn't damaged himself with his own DCs. 1 shot, waterline, MOT, and that was it. He took a LONG time to sink. I'm all for critical damage sometimes, but with a 3" shell?

I had the same thing happen to me with the Small Modern Composite Freighter. Fired three 4" shells into him, and instantly I got the sinking notification message (I'm using the deck gun values from RFB).

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

I had the same thing happen to me with the Small Modern Composite Freighter. Fired three 4" shells into him, and instantly I got the sinking notification message (I'm using the deck gun values from RFB).

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=772

If critical flotation =0.0 then

340 hp * 0.0 = 0.

which means that the very first shot, regardless of damage number, will start the compartment to flood. With nohting to scale against (IE min damage threshhold) to establish a flood rate percentage, the sinkings are nearly instantanous.

[Jhereg]

Yeah the Small Modern Composite is particularly vulnerable to this, my last few run ins with them have been one to the bow, mid, and stern waterline and poof.

ALLLLLAAAAAAAAAARMMMM!!!! abandon ship

I sure hope the developers are watching these boards and seeing how quickly and ingeniously the modders on this forum are finding fixes to all probs.

SH5 should be about perfect.....

Thanks for the mod Werner!

[switch.dota]

Originally Posted by Jhereg

Yeah the Small Modern Composite is particularly vulnerable to this, my last few run ins with them have been one to the bow, mid, and stern waterline and poof.

ALLLLLAAAAAAAAAARMMMM!!!! abandon ship

I sure hope the developers are watching these boards and seeing how quickly and ingeniously the modders on this forum are finding fixes to all probs.

SH5 should be about perfect.....

Thanks for the mod Werner!

They've come to RELY on modders to finish their game for them

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by switch.dota

They've come to RELY on modders to finish their game for them

I disagree. My understanding of it is this:

Theres two parties responsible for Sh4. The developers, and the publisher. The publisher is Ubisoft, the developers are ultimatly at the whims of the publisher. The publisher is the guy with the cigar in his mouth, worried only about the bottom line. To minimize his expenditures, and maximize his profits. Anything else to the publisher, is not important.

The developers on the otherhand, are the guys who make these games because they love these games. If left to their own devices, SH4 would probably still be in development, and would be released in alot better condition. However, the publisher, mr suspender man with the chomping on his cigar, didn't quite leave them alone to do their magic and imposed deadlines to meet. Sh3 was given 2+ years of development time, SH4 was only given, what... 11 months, if that?

If i was to point fingers, id point them at the Publisher. The developers who cruise this forum, are not the cause, they're in the same boat as we are.