Gun Control thread (merged many) - Page 88

Betonov · 01-03-15, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Yeah the general public just said "nah forget it". It had absolutely nothing to do with the efforts of Europes historical leaders to keep the peasantry as disarmed as possible.

Duh, We didn't really need weekend warriors playing revolutions and rebellions every second weekend.
A peasant needs only two tools, the plow and the scythe.

Rockstar · 01-03-15, 05:07 PM

What is the European fascination and distaste of the U.S. 2nd amendment? Is it because it was written by rebellious Europeans, mostly Englishmen, who didn't like living in Europe?

Oh, just an FYI I still wouldnt want to live in Europe. Too many wars throughout the centuries has pacified the population into becoming bean counters. Thinking they can now enlighten the world and show us the error of our ways with their statistics and numbers.

Oberon · 01-03-15, 05:15 PM

Too many dead people will do that to you.

Oberon · 01-03-15, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Well, it's difficult to put a longbow, hand axe or claymore into a holster under your jacket. Furthermore they probably require more training than a gun that you basically just align with your target and then squeeze the trigger.
Or in short, those weapons aren't very handy and aren't up to date so no one wants to use them.

Going off off off off topic for a moment, what's the German/Germanic equivilent of the English Longbowman in terms of a sort of symbolic Germanic weapon/unit? The Teutonic knight?

Rockstar · 01-03-15, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

Duh, We didn't really need weekend warriors playing revolutions and rebellions every second weekend.
A peasant needs only two tools, the plow and the scythe.

Thats true no need to train on weekends. Just look at European History it is littered with the stench of war. Peasants either hacking each other to death with farm tools or killing one another with rifles issued by their kings and queens. Such disdain for firearms is probably because europeans just simply equate firearms with war.

Betonov · 01-03-15, 05:22 PM

And two world wars that completely destroyed our infrastructure, food production and access to utilities like healthcare, while Americans had a warehouse or two sabotaged and apart from the the poor soldiers that were actually sent into the hell that's a European war, you never really grew out of the ''gentleman game'' mentality when it comes to war. An adventure in foreign lands.

So no, we're not bean bags. We're civilized.

Schroeder · 01-03-15, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Going off off off off topic for a moment, what's the German/Germanic equivilent of the English Longbowman in terms of a sort of symbolic Germanic weapon/unit? The Teutonic knight?

I'm not even sure we have anything like that. Probably the Germanic warriors with axes and swords who defeated the Romans.
Could also be medieval knights though...
Hard to say.

ikalugin · 01-03-15, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Going off off off off topic for a moment, what's the German/Germanic equivilent of the English Longbowman in terms of a sort of symbolic Germanic weapon/unit? The Teutonic knight?

On the bottom of the Ladoga lake?

Schroeder · 01-03-15, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

On the bottom of the Ladoga lake?

Unlike in most other countries WWII soldiers don't get much recognition here.
The entire generation has sort of been convicted as agressors by the following generations. Not that I think that's ok but that's what it is.

Oberon · 01-03-15, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I'm not even sure we have anything like that. Probably the Germanic warriors with axes and swords who defeated the Romans.
Could also be medieval knights though...
Hard to say.

That's about what I reckoned. Does the HRE get much talk?

Aktungbby · 01-03-15, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I'm not even sure we have anything like that. Probably the Germanic warriors with axes and swords who defeated the Romans.
Could also be medieval knights though...
Hard to say.

I've often thought highly of the German Landsknechts who were the only ones on given occasions that could maul the otherwise redoubtable Swiss Pikemen as at the Battle of Bicocca and the Battle of Pavia (1525), where they performed exceptionally well, notably crushing the famed Swiss Pikemen in French service. Their attire and distinctive Katzbalger small sword augmentation of their huge ZweiHander (two hander sword) meant they weren't hiding in the least. The two-handed warrior has passed into English: DOPPELGANGER

the hundreds of

different parry's that could be achieved with this sword..and these mercenaries knew every one of them!.

the distinctive blade of the Landsknecht however WAS the short Katzbalger.

Not always worn in a scabbard, the weapon was the 'Catgutter' reflecting the bearer's predilection for close nasty combat. Foot note to it all:: amid the hack and hew of the era in general, battle between $wiss and Landsknech$ mercenaries was referred to as 'BAD WAR'... JEEZE!!! such a distinction!

Oberon · 01-03-15, 06:33 PM

PMCs were frowned on back then, even if most wars were fought with shed loads of mercenaries.

Good point on the Zweihander, they are fantastic weapons, and, of course the Landsknechts, I'd forgotten about them but they were real powerful warriors.

Schroeder · 01-03-15, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

That's about what I reckoned. Does the HRE get much talk?

HRE = Holy Roman Empire?
Depends on what you would call much talk. We didn't do much in history about that (or I've forgotten it all again which wouldn't surprise me as I hardly recall what we did in history regarding the years before the Weimar Republic).
Over here everything is overshadowed by WWII. Occasionally one can catch some documentaries on the other eras on TV though, whether that means we talk a lot about that is a different question though. (Maybe some of the other Germans here can answer that better than me)

MH · 01-04-15, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Such disdain for firearms is probably because europeans just simply equate firearms with war.

Yep
You are into somthing here…
Firearms is more of a tool to use on enemy, not fellow citizens.
It is sort of taboo rooted in the legislation.

August · 01-04-15, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

Yep
You are into somthing here…
Firearms is more of a tool to use on enemy, not fellow citizens.
It is sort of taboo rooted in the legislation.

I think it's more a taboo rooted in the instinctual European fear that the local prince will send a swarm of Cossacks to cut down any potentially troublesome peasant and raze his village. Not only have we Americans not had as much experience living under that kind of regime but we're mostly all the descendents of those who chose to brave the wilds of the New World than continue to live at some nobles leave. Adventurers, Troublemakers, Gutter Sweepings, Wretched Refuse, that's us to a tee. European potentates were glad to get rid of us.

That probably goes a long way to explaining our like of firearms as anything else.

01-03-15, 05:07 PM	#1307
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	What is the European fascination and distaste of the U.S. 2nd amendment? Is it because it was written by rebellious Europeans, mostly Englishmen, who didn't like living in Europe? Oh, just an FYI I still wouldnt want to live in Europe. Too many wars throughout the centuries has pacified the population into becoming bean counters. Thinking they can now enlighten the world and show us the error of our ways with their statistics and numbers.

01-03-15, 05:15 PM	#1308
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Too many dead people will do that to you.

01-03-15, 05:22 PM	#1311
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	And two world wars that completely destroyed our infrastructure, food production and access to utilities like healthcare, while Americans had a warehouse or two sabotaged and apart from the the poor soldiers that were actually sent into the hell that's a European war, you never really grew out of the ''gentleman game'' mentality when it comes to war. An adventure in foreign lands. So no, we're not bean bags. We're civilized.

01-03-15, 06:33 PM	#1317
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	PMCs were frowned on back then, even if most wars were fought with shed loads of mercenaries. Good point on the Zweihander, they are fantastic weapons, and, of course the Landsknechts, I'd forgotten about them but they were real powerful warriors.