Firearms yes or no

[ASWnut101]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Well if that is the case, fighting would be futile probably as the intruder would doubtless be prepared for your attempted resistance or fleeing.

I highly doubt that a person would intentionally intrude into someone's home when they know the person is armed.

Maybe, but that does not automatically give me the right to blwo his brains out with a gun.

So if he had, say a knife, you would allow him to keep at you? Even if he wanted to kill you?

Glad I don't live there then, because some of the people in this thread have pretty much said they would shoot first and forgo even bothering to ask questions and claim they were in fear for their life, sounds to me like that kind of system lets the killers walk free. Here in the UK we have reasonable force I will find out about what it says when your life is threatened and there is evidence to suggest that how far you can go.

Well, I'm glad I don't live in a country that dosen't allow me to defend myself to the fullest extent.

A thigh and upper leg area is an easy enough area of the body to hit, drugs or not, you put a bullet or two in someones thigh and they WILL fall down. They may not feel it, but you can't stand without your thighs, its a given fact.

Having shot at full body targets, I can say this: Hitting a thigh is quite difficult. Now, add the fact that you are scared (from the knowledge that someone is somewhere doing something in your house), tired, and it's dark. Possibility of hitting a thigh on purpose is very hard.

But not everybody here in this thread would be so lenient as to allow the intruder chance to leave.

Actually, almost everyone here would agree to give the person a chance to leave. Or at least they would call "STOP!" (or something along those lines) before firing. Your gun is a last resort. The only thing is, the "resorts" go along very fast.

They would simply shoot him there and then... or so they say... therefore, I am left to assume from what I see here, the majority of pro-gun people are perfectly happy to kill, even whether they realise it or not, are looking for every possible instance where they can be excused for doing so.

After giving the intruder a chance, of course.

[Yahoshua]

In Rivers of Africa (1893), Winston Churchill observed:

If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you with only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is not hope of victory at all, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

[Psycluded]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

But not everybody here in this thread would be so lenient as to allow the intruder chance to leave. They would simply shoot him there and then... or so they say... therefore, I am left to assume from what I see here, the majority of pro-gun people are perfectly happy to kill, even whether they realise it or not, are looking for every possible instance where they can be excused for doing so.

Anyone who boasts that they would kill another human being when there's another option has obviously never done so, and if they have, are beyond the pale and have left the human race behind.

I know police officers who have needed years of counseling for a single shooting due to the incredible amount of guilt and second-guessing that follows. If I had done this, if he hadn't done that, if, if, if. It can kill you.

Guns are something that have been a part of my life since I was in preschool, toting a little .22 rifle with my daddy squirrel hunting. I've been taught since I was that age that guns are weapons for the specific purpose of taking life, and that all other uses are training. Saying otherwise is wishful playtalk. I was also taught that if you draw a gun, your very next two actions should be to gain sight picture and fire. No exceptions.

I guess the difference is that if it ever comes to that for me, it'll be a case where I don't see an alternative. I don't like to think about having to kill another human being. Hell, I was in the military for 6 years, and I still don't like the idea. Will I if I must? Yes. My life is precious to me, as are the lives of my family. If someone forces me to make the choice between my life, or the lives of my family, and that of an aggressor, I will pull the trigger..

.. and probably immediately throw up.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

I don't think guns are really as good as Martial Arts when it comes to defending ones self. As to my mind, a gun is an offensive weapon which epitomises the saying, "the best defence is a good offence" guns can kill, Martial Arts can kill, but a skilled Martial Artist cannot accidentally kill someone, they have to do it deliberately, which if they do makes them a murderer. But you can unintentionally kill someone with a gun, there is a good chance of that.

However, both a gun, and Martial Arts knowledge in the wrong hands can be lethal.

I understand you have little knowledge of firearms in your country, but you are wrong on the defense portion of things. I understand Hollywood makes a pistol out to be a super weapon (They never miss in movies it seems), but in reality, its good for about 20 feet reliably, though it is very manuverable in close quarters and is a decent close quarters weapon. It is purely a defense weapon and anyone that thinks it can be used offensively in more than a crutch manner have never used one. That is why your boys in Iraq don't even bother to carry a pistol.

Only a rifle could be coined an offensive weapon.

-S

PS. If it is serious enough to put someone down, they probably deserve to die by the way.

PPS. You don't have to shoot to kill either by the way - just like a martial arts person - that is another Hollywood myth that anyone that gets shot in the torso dies. SHoot a leg if you have to. Problem is in this day in age, whether you use martial arts or guns and do not kill your attacker, you may get sued for the rest of your life over it.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I understand you have little knowledge of firearms in your country, but you are wrong on the defense portion of things. I understand Hollywood makes a pistol out to be a super weapon (They never miss in movies it seems), but in reality, its good for about 20 feet reliably, though it is very manuverable in close quarters and is a decent close quarters weapon. It is purely a defense weapon and anyone that thinks it can be used offensively in more than a crutch manner have never used one. That is why your boys in Iraq don't even bother to carry a pistol.

Only a rifle could be coined an offensive weapon.

If you're mugged by someone with a pistol, then it's an offensive weapon. Any weapon can be used offensively.

PPS. You don't have to shoot to kill either by the way - just like a martial arts person - that is another Hollywood myth that anyone that gets shot in the torso dies. SHoot a leg if you have to. Problem is in this day in age, whether you use martial arts or guns and do not kill your attacker, you may get sued for the rest of your life over it.

Ok, through my limited experience of gun use, it's hard enough to hit someone without worrying about tricky bits of anatomy. Especially in a tense situation. There are posters online with much more experience, so have at it

[Yahoshua]

For those of us who own a firearm and think they can hit a kneecap of a mugger or robber at close range, please commit to the following exercise:

Will need:

-1 clay pigeon.
-Sidearm of your choice with preferred method of concealment and ONE round for said sidearm.
-trusting friend

Phase 1.

Step one: Go to firing range and have a friend hold onto the clay pigeon for you while you do the following.

Step two: Park vehicle one mile from firing range (preferably with a hill somewhere in between)

Step three: Arrange sidearm as you would while carrying concealed.

Step four: RUN all the way to the range, immediatly upon arrival do 20 rapid pushups. During step four, your friend will place the clay pigeon on the range and exit the line of fire

Step five: Immediatly upon completion of step four you will jump to your feet, quickdraw your sidearm, and use the ONE round you have in your sidearm to hit that clay pigeon. If it's a fluke, do it again.

Phase 2.

Repeat phase 1 except using a mannequin for a target. More likely than not, you'll aim for center mass every time rather than try for a kneecap.

[August]

The thing you have to remember about robbers is that they are opportunists and will naturally gravitate toward the easier pickings. IE: An unoccupied home is easier to rob than an occupied one and, in unexpected encounters, an unarmed victim is easier to deal with (dispose of) than an armed one. In those situations the mere presence of a gun in a homeowners hands or that unmistakeable sound of a .12 gage pump being operated and the gruff "who's there?" sounding from somewhere upstairs, can be enough to defuse the situation before it comes to violence. The robber just beats a hasty exit for easier pickings.

The Criminal that enters a home he knows to be occupied is a different story. He has a plan to deal with (or dispose of) those he expects to find there. While having a gun in that situation is certainly no guarentee of safety it can give the victim a chance at survival. On the other side of the coin however the unarmed victim has absolutely no chance of preventing the criminal from doing whatever he wants to do so it's a case of betting your life and your families lives that he won't slit everyones throats to eliminate witnesses.

[Wim Libaers]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You are assuming that an intruder (I use this word instead of burglar) is there merely to steal. What if he doesn't want you to cooperate, what if his intentions are more personal? I know this seems extreme, but there are people in this world who enjoy inflicting pain and worse on others.

Ah yes, for example, there has been such a case nearby where two guys broke into a house, tied up the two elderly people living there, stole a couple of things, and then tortured those two people for a few hours before leaving. If I remember correctly, they did survive, but with serious injuries.

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

After giving the intruder a chance, of course.

That isn't what you said on the previous page, you said you would just shoot him in the noggin. Now you say you would give him a chance? Which is it?

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

PPS. You don't have to shoot to kill either by the way - just like a martial arts person - that is another Hollywood myth that anyone that gets shot in the torso dies. SHoot a leg if you have to. Problem is in this day in age, whether you use martial arts or guns and do not kill your attacker, you may get sued for the rest of your life over it.

I would rather have that, than someone's death on my conscience. Even if they were the dregs of society.

[ASWnut101]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

That isn't what you said on the previous page, you said you would just shoot him in the noggin. Now you say you would give him a chance? Which is it?

Yes, shoot him after you give him a chance. That (Shoot him) was the final step.

[yankee-V]

Firearms: Yes or No.

So have we reached a concensus?

Originally Posted by yankee-V

Firearms: Yes or No.

So have we reached a concensus?

Nope, as I will not support it...

[Penelope_Grey]

I am not against owning a gun, what I am against is using it to kill someone.

Like I said above, I don't think anybody not in the military or police should have anybody's death on their conscience.

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

I am not against owning a gun, what I am against is using it to kill someone.

Like I said above, I don't think anybody not in the military or police should have anybody's death on their conscience.

Agree 100%
Taking someone's life is a same thing as acting as a God, and for a commandment: YOU SHALL NOT KILL!!!
For a self-defence, just hurt him so he may live...:hmm: