JANAC

[DeepSix]

Just had a brain spasm. In SH3, you pretty much know exactly how much tonnage you sink, almost from the moment you sink it. I was just wondering if in SH4 it would be possible (or even desirable) to simulate the findings of the JANAC committee. JANAC was convened after the war to review Japanese records and determine what was sunk and what wasn't. In many cases, skippers' claimed tonnage was reduced; in a few it was actually increased. In SH4, this could be incorporated perhaps by letting you see your tonnage as you play (just as in SH3), but then having it adjusted at the conclusion of your career. Randomize it a little so it's not a fixed amount for every player, every career.

I confess I don't know what would be a fair way to do this.

I dunno - what do y'all think? Doable? Desirable? Unnecessary?

[Safe-Keeper]

I always wondered how on Earth you know exactly how much tonnage you sink, too. But I can't think of a fix, either.

[Dowly]

I was thinking that too few days ago. I would like to see modders to include an optional mod to the big mods out there (NYGM & GW) that would change the tonnages of ships.

Every type of ship would have a same tonnage.

e.g. if you sink three T3 tankers: 9000 + 9000 + 9000 = 27000 tons. Much more realistic IMO.

[SilentOtto]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

I always wondered how on Earth you know exactly how much tonnage you sink, too. But I can't think of a fix, either.

In diverse readings I've found out that maybe about 50% of the time or more, submariners could find out which ship they had sunk (by reading the name, by intercepting radio SSS or other distress calls from the ship, etc.), and find its tonnage at the Lloyd's registry books they carried aboard. As for newer ships not included in those books or ships not identified, well they just guessed based on ship type, and usually ended up with happily "enbiggened" (Simpsons quote numbers.

My 2 euro cents!

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Dowly

I was thinking that too few days ago. I would like to see modders to include an optional mod to the big mods out there (NYGM & GW) that would change the tonnages of ships.

Every type of ship would have a same tonnage.

e.g. if you sink three T3 tankers: 9000 + 9000 + 9000 = 27000 tons. Much more realistic IMO.

SH3 Commander allows players to do this. However, slight variations of a few tons are hard-coded into the game. Also, it kinda hurts my pride when RUb or SH3 Commander is left out of any list of 'the big mods out there'. Both of these mods are out there, they both change tonnages, and they're huge.

P.S. Regarding the first post in this thread, SH3 Commander allows players to modify tonnages as well as the variation in tonnages awarded to the boat. You can have them as variable or as similar as you desire. Since SH4 will use the same engine as SH3 I'm assuming it won't be that difficult to do the same thing using a version of SH3 Commander (SH4 Commander?).

[DeepSix]

Originally Posted by Beery

...
Since SH4 will use the same engine as SH3 I'm assuming it won't be that difficult to do the same thing using a version of SH3 Commander (SH4 Commander?).

Thanks for the responses, guys - great food for thought. Beery thanks, I hadn't thought about it that way, but I believe you're right - I'd be surprised if we don't see an SH4 Commander or something very much like it.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by DeepSix

Thanks for the responses, guys - great food for thought. Beery thanks, I hadn't thought about it that way, but I believe you're right - I'd be surprised if we don't see an SH4 Commander or something very much like it.

I hope so. The idea for SH3 Commander was born out of a mod I'd co-authored (with a fellow named Von Tom) for Red Baron 3D (called Campaign Manager) which allowed players to manage careers and tailor the game in much greater detail than the game itself allowed. I've always thought that a great simulation needs to have a role-playing game at its heart, and RB3D's Campaign Manager achieved this to some degree. Unfortunately I have absolutely no skill in programming at all, and RB3D CM only basically allowed date-based file changes and minor campaign adjustments, so when I approached Jaesen with the idea of the same sort of thing for SH3 I had no idea how far it could go. Jaesen has gone well beyond the original intention to craft a mod that is, I think, essential for any player of the game. Again, what he's achieved with SH3 Commander is to give SH3 a roleplaying 'heart' which humanizes the player's experience, but more than that, he's made a mod that enhances everyone's game, so it's accessible by all, and not just a mod for the hardcore sim player. I just hope Jaesen is still interested in mod-making when Sh4 comes along, because unfortunately commercial game developers just don't seem to understand that computer simulations need the essential 'human element' that mods like SH3 Commander give.

Going back to this thread's topic, it points out an issue that I think is unfortunate - and that's that SH3 Commander is still relatively unknown among players in general. I think that SH3 Commander is always going to be the one essential mod for this game because it allows players a huge amount of freedom to tailor the game to their needs. Sadly, whether it's from a lack of effective advertising, a perception that the mod is too complex, a basic misunderstanding of how the mod works and what it does, or just a fear of mods in general, players as a whole have not caught onto this great mod. I tend to think that, because it's not as simple and clear as a skins mod, most people just can't figure out how good it is unless they get it working, and many people aren't willing to commit to a mod unless they can see pretty pictures showing new graphics, and 'chrome' is not what SH3 Commander is all about. It's much deeper than that. I mean, what other mod automatically generates a commander's entire life history, from his birth and schooling all the way to his postwar career and death?

Beery, I think RUB gets forgotten in the lists because the newer mods are based on it in the first place; the child replaces the parent and gets the credit.

As to Commander, I agree it's the single most useful tool, and I thank you and Jaesen for all your hard work.

[DeepSix]

Originally Posted by Beery

...
Sadly, whether it's from a lack of effective advertising, a perception that the mod is too complex, a basic misunderstanding of how the mod works and what it does, or just a fear of mods in general, players as a whole have not caught onto this great mod. I tend to think that, because it's not as simple and clear as a skins mod, most people just can't figure out how good it is unless they get it working, and many people aren't willing to commit to a mod unless they can see pretty pictures showing new graphics, and 'chrome' is not what SH3 Commander is all about. It's much deeper than that.

Well in my case it's because it came onto the scene during a period of several months during which I didn't play SH3 or even visit subsim (GASP!). When I started playing again, I started a career with plain vanilla that I was (and still am) determined to finish - before I was even aware of Commander. Once I finish this career, though, SH3 Commander is one of the first things I want to try out. Then I'll be ready to spend the time learning what does what; coming back, I found that there are several "big mods" and I don't know which one does what. I imagine there are other people in the same boat. In other words, I think all your reasons are valid; I'd just add to that list the factor of "time."

Very much looking forward to trying Commander; thanks for all your hard work!

[Bilge_Rat]

I use SH3 Commander all the time, I could not imagine sailing without it.

Back to the topic at hand, it could easily be done if the game only gave the commander the number of ships/tonnage sunk at the end of a career.

The player would have to guess, as in RL, the tonnage of each ship sunk which would lead to wild overclaims ... as in RL.

[don1reed]

This sounds like a "Guess the weight" contest...sorta; but, hey, why not?

Say at the end of a patrol, you submit your 'guesstimated' tonnage sunk and if it's within a certain percentage of JANAC, you are credited on plus if you're guess is on the plus side...and conversely, debited if on the negative side if it doesn't satisfy the params...