Can Catholic crosses keep the far right at bay in multicultural Bavaria?

[Gerald]

Christian symbols in all public buildings: it’s a political gamble that could go badly wrong in Germany’s ‘laptop and lederhosen’ state

Today the German state of Bavaria will formally renounce the ideal of multiculturalism. All public buildings will be required to display a “clearly visible” crucifix near the entrance. Crosses already hang in Bavarian class- and courtrooms and many town halls. Now ministries, jobcentres, municipal hospitals and police stations must follow suit. Fearing civil disobedience, universities and theatres have been granted an exemption from the executive order of Bavaria’s new first minister, Markus Söder, to underline “Bavaria’s cultural and historical heritage”.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ltural-bavaria

There is a long tradition in Bavaria, with 12.9 million inhabitants and wealthy German region, and now this is on their table, which apparently has been a long time, with ideals of multiculturalism.

[Skybird]

Much of that is populism by Söder. However, the Bavarians are a people with much stronger identity feelings than most other regional German populations. The past years of Merkels' mass migration into Germany have not gone by without leaving traces. A pendulum swings both ways, it swung "there", now it swings "back", in all of Europe.

It will become much worse when the still running economic boom in Germany will weaken and stall and the burden of the net migration into the social systems will make themselves felt - the signs for that already are written on the wall.

Myself, I want a strict separation of state and religion inn Germany. Germany neither is nor was a secular state. The state actively assists the churches and arranges financial lucrative special priviliges for them. As a result the German dioceses are the richest in the world. This must come to an end. All religions, all, have to be "ordinary actors" before the law like any private citizen and shall be prevented from benefitting from priviliges and financial aid by public funds. This includes a total and strict banning of genital mutilations of boys and girls under the age of consent (18 or better 21), since that is a violation of laws about bodily harm and assaulting, and a ban on Halal slaughtering and Schächten, since both are violations of the protection of animal act. No parallel justice systems for and run by nobody. Perdiod.

Heck, in Germany the state even collects mandatory church taxes as if it still were the medieval!

Germany is NOT a secular state, and never was.

Leave religion where it belongs: in the private sphere, and only tolerated under the precondition that it fully complies, without exception, with the states' public, private and penalty laws (we have no common law system in Germany like in the Anglosaxon tradition). Thats true for Christians. Thats true for Jews. Thats true for Muhammeddans. Thats true for everybody else.

[Catfish]

This politician Soeder who is responsible for such kind of nonsense can be compared to Trump, he knows it all better, and he is going for confrontation everywhere to serve his ego. He is only instrumentalising and abusing all kinds of opinions and religion, to serve himself.

[JU_88]

'populism' = any popular political ideology or movement that isn't post-modern /progressive.

[Soni2]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Heck, in Germany the state even collects mandatory church taxes as if it still were the medieval!

"Curch tax" only applies to church members. If you are not a church member, you do not pay church tax. So, church taxes are more like a member fee than a real tax.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Soni2

"Curch tax" only applies to church members. If you are not a church member, you do not pay church tax. So, church taxes are more like a member fee than a real tax.

Nevertheless a tax that gets collected - by the state.



Also, due to some law from early 19th cenmtury, the state pays yearly copensations to the church for lands that were exproriated at that time. That the church mostly collected these lands in dubious ways itself back then, gets ignored. And so, since over 200 years, even non-members have to pay via the public tax scheme for the church - member or not.


Its like in the medieval. Just a few days the yearly payment was due, and in some newspapers they reprted it. Church critics showed the calculation that revealed the state since 1949 payed a two digit billion sum of money . Also, the church gets immense tax reliefs and priviliged fiscal legislation. When they build a new hopsital, and ther church adds lets say 10% of "its" money to the costs, it often ends with the whole hospital after construction given into amdinsitraiton and possession of the church. Tax payers - church members and non-members alike - pay 90% of the costs, but the church owns it, and the land it got build on: its property then. When a church-run hposital or sociual service needs finial "m,ainteance" - who you think gotta pay? Right, the tax payer, no matter whether he is church member or not.



The profits from these fraudulent schemes - thats what they are - are calculated by church critics to count by the hundreds of billions.



Now you know why the German dioceses are the by far wealthiest in the world.



Church and Christ, that is like Mafia and Albert Schweitzer. It does not match. Its the reason why Paul may have been beneficial for the church he founded - but is a traitor to what Jesus has taught. In the end, Paul served his own earthly ego - and betrayed Jesus. Damned he should be - judging by what has come of it in the past 2 millenia.

[Soni2]

It is not that easy. Once upon a time, the church had its own estates, where the church collect own taxes and so own. So the church was able to finance itself from revenues of its land.


Then, with secularization, the property of the church was confiscated. Wth that, the church lost most of its power but also lost the ability to finance itself. The consequences are still noticeable today.



The Weimarer Constitution from 1919 already stipulated, that the payments should be replaced by a one-time compensation. And after WW2, the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany also stipulated such a one-time compensation.


Only there were never corresponding negotiations by the politicians since nearly 100 years. This is the reason, why the germans still pay compensation for the confiscation of church property.

[Catfish]

And Germany is still paying taxes on sparkling wine, a tax introduced by Kaiser William 2nd to finance the german High Seas Fleet of the time.

We also still pay for the allied airlift after World war 2. The taxes raised then for financing it have never been cancelled. No, the Allied did not do it for free, or alone for altruistic reasons.. like building a bulwark against the Soviet Union [/sarcasm]

Other "taxes" apply for financing the East of Germany after the unification in 1989, intended for building up. The only thing that did was that a few private comapnies could fill their private wallets, while also bribing politicians and CEOs. And the organisation that brought the rest of the ex GDR industry to its knees was just of all called "Treuhand" (trustee relationship) . That's capitalism for you.

With church taxes it is easy – leave the church, and you don't pay. Though gathering those taxes by the state is indeed not appropriate, anymore.

[Soni2]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Though gathering those taxes by the state is indeed not appropriate, anymore.

I do not agree with that. As church tax is bound to your income, collection by tax authorities is a very customer-friendly way of paying the "church membership fee". Also, resigning church membership is very easy and uncomplicated, even in bavaria. ;-)