Exoplanets

[mapuc]

Almost every day I hear we have found a new exoplanet in the circumstellar habitable zone=the Goldilocks zone

Maybe there's life on one or more of them-the two big question is

1. is the life on this/those planet(s) intelligent ?
If number 1 is yes=intelligent life, then next question

2. How far have they come in their development-are they way ahead of us or are they still fighting their "WWI" or hunting mammut with clubs ?

Of course if they are still in the stone age their intelligent may not be that high.

Markus

[Platapus]

I guess it would depend on the definition of intelligence.

I wonder if "acts/acted like us" is a good measurand?

Of course if they are still in the stone age their intelligent may not be that high.

Supposed they evolved to such a high level of intelligence that they decided that the "stone age" (an ill defined earth centrist term) is the optimum technological state to maintain harmony with nature, where maintaining a balance with nature is the goal?

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I guess it would depend on the definition of intelligence.

I wonder if "acts/acted like us" is a good measurand?



Supposed they evolved to such a high level of intelligence that they decided that the "stone age" (an ill defined earth centrist term) is the optimum technological state to maintain harmony with nature, where maintaining a balance with nature is the goal?

When I wrote the word "Intelligent" I know this word would be more discussed than the topic itself.

I tried to find another word, but I couldn't

It's another planet=another type of time periode
Maybe this or those planet(s) didn't have any stone age or other time period.
Or is this an universal thing, which every habitat planets has to go through ?

Markus

[Platapus]

It is difficult to conceptualize other planets without introducing our own bias. After all, this planet is all we know.

But another planet, may not have much in common with anything on earth. Life may be in a completely alien (pun intended) form that we may not even be easily able to identify or even detect.

The very concept of intelligence on another planet may have little in common to what we consider intelligence. After all, we have a hard time defining intelligence here on this rock.

or

They may look and act just like us.

We may never know.

Perhaps it was intended that life evolves on planets too far apart to allow any cross "contamination" between them?

Sort of a naturally enforced Prime Directive.

[Sailor Steve]

Since there is no way to know the answer except by going there, or them coming to us, or possibly receiving an intelligible radio message, I got out of the habit of speculating long ago. We can talk about it and guess at the answers forever and still be no closer to knowing anything. I've come to consider questions like this to be a waste of time.

[Von Due]

As for what would life on other planets be like, I'm with Sailor Steve in that there is no way to tell what those lifeforms would be like. There is however one book, written in the late 70's, that attempts to find the questions one should ask, or can ask. Being that old, lots of the data in it is outdated, corrected or wrong but the main theme, which questions should one ask, is still valid.
The book is "Liv Bland Miljarder Stjärnor, Civilisationer i Vintergatan och Därbortom?" ("Life Among Billions of Stars, Civilizations in the Milky Way and Beyond?") by the Finnish astronomer/physicist Nils Mustelin. Like I said, some of what's in there is not up to date but it's still a good read if one is interested in the possibility of life elsewhere.

[fireftr18]

As others have said, there is no real way of telling how life on another planet has evolved. I have two thoughts on the matter.
No real research involved on this one. Combining different and many shows and different and many texts over the years, it seems that the chance of another planet capable of supporting life as we know it is so astronomical, that we can consider it as impossible.
Now, let's consider that there is another planet capable of supporting life as we know it, and has evolved to intelligence. We still don't know what the plants and lower animals will look like. Based on Biblical teachings, the intelligent life would be very similar to us. "Made in the image and likeness of God."

[Eichhörnchen]

There's been much talk lately, as we build machines with ever more autonomy, of of 'non-organic' life developing here on our own planet to eventually replace humankind. It may already have happened out there...

[Von Due]

Based on the book I mentioned, some questions one should ask:
How do planets and stars form anyway?
What's up with the different types of stars and why would it matter?
How would double/triple etc star systems affect any planetary system around those stars?
Long story short, if the theories are right or close to being right then we can expect, statistically, billions of planets that can support carbon based life, whether or not life is present on those planets. Statistically, of course.

What is life anyway?
How did life begin on Earth?
What is a species anyway?
How does evolution work? What factors in and what doesn't? How important is it to evolution that we reproduce the way we do? How likely is it that evolution sees a species through the needle eyes and bring sexual reproduction? What other needle eyes are there and how likely is evolution to get us through all of those?
Again, long story short: The probability of life to start at all on a planet suitable for life appears to be high with numbers from above 50% to 100%. From what we can tell, evolution is inevitable when we talk about carbon based life like here on Earth so if life begins then there will be an evolution. That being said, on another planet, evolution would certainly diverge over millions and billions of years from the one here on Earth even if the starting conditions were in every way identical so no humans, no lizards or dinosaurs or jellyfish there.

What is intelligence?
How does the biological evolution take part in the developement of intelligence? How much did it matter that we have sensory organs and how much did it matter that our eyes happen to be sensitive to a narrow band on the E.M. spectrum?
At what point can one say there is a culture and a cultural evolution?
Statistics and what we think we know (in 1978-1980 that is) suggests that intelligence is highly likely to appear as it offers benefits for the species that helps the species survive and get offspring. Would any intelligent alien score well on any earthly IQ test? Not neccessarily.

Time. Just because it may be highly likely that life appears on a planet suitable for life, just because it may be likely that evolution brings on intelligent species, does not in any way mean the universe is filled to the brim with life and civilizations. Not all stars formed at the same time, not every planet formed at the same time, there is no reason to think life somehow started on all these planets at the same time. Then there is the question of how long do stars live, how long do civilizations live? Time is the real killer after all the talk about statistics and likelyhood.

Even if we max out all the probabilities for life and civilizations, thanks to time, we still shouldn't be surprised if we were alone at the moment, nor should we be surprised if there was a civilization 100 light years away.

[Skybird]

Would an ant recognize our intelligence? Would it even recognize our existence?



Over the years, I found myself falling more and more in line with those scientific circles arguing that organic, biological carriers of life and awareness are far too fragile and short-lasting for the brutal hostility of space towards everything alive. Such scientists argue further that life therefore either does not develope beyond a certain, primitive threshhold - or finds ways to transform its mind/awareness/intelligence so that it can be carried by technological carriers. To put it simple: robots. The majority of civilizations superior to ours - if there are any, mind you - maybe even all, could be machine civilizations. Whatever "machine" means. And that could be tehcnology that we are unable to recognise as such. As Arthur C. Clarke, I think, once said: beyond a certain level that an alien technology is more advanced than ours, it must appear to us as pure magic.

Also, the alien is this: alien. We cannot assess it by any standards we know. Human ideas about ethics and morals, reason and modesty, are neither universal and general, nor are they a natural law. Our relgions are our imaginations, beyond Earth, nobody and noone ever has heard of them, most likely. We should be saving ourselves from assuming that the alien civilization we find, automatically must be neutral or friendly to us. I am not deliberately hostile to flies when I bash one with the newspaper. I just do it. I don't care. Maybe we are well-advised to not shout out loud into cosmos and telling everyone out there of our existence, but to stay hidden. On planet Earth at least, this has proven to be a successful survival strategy for very many species that else would have gone extinct. If there is somebody who can reach us while we cannot reach him, this means he is hopelessly superior to us.

And we are at his mercy. Its bad advise to form plans on the assumption that the other necessarily must mean it well with us.

I used to think that probability is in favour of more life being out there, and intelligence. But these days, I am not so sure of that anymore. I do not take it as granted anymore that we are not alone. One could see that as a horrible possibility. Or one that secures our survival, at least for as long as we last by our own, on this planet. Maybe depends on how many drinks you already have had.

[Torplexed]

One possibility for why we don't hear or see much of ET is that any advanced civilization eventually collapses due to warfare, internal strife, or environmental collapse. Or there may be an existential threat from high technology itself. Such as the familiar sci-fi trope of an AI developed to run everything deciding it doesn't need its inefficient biological predecessors around anymore. Perhaps, advanced technology proves to be a self correcting mechanism that keeps any planetary civilization from advancing very far from their home worlds.

Another more intriguing possibility is that very advanced civilizations remove themselves from our universe and create artificial universes of their own. Some cosmologists think that it may be possible to create new universes in the laboratory, and perhaps tune them to be more suitable for intelligent processes. If you can make your own paradise, why stay in this intimidating cosmos where stars and planets are so far apart? When I am feeling hopeful, I tend to favor this explanation. Perhaps these advanced civilizations in their basement universes have a way of communicating with our own world when necessary; perhaps not. A daunting thought.

But most of the time I tend towards thinking that advanced life in this galaxy or any other is just an extremely rare event and given the staggering distances involved, you're just not going to bump into many of them.

[Von Due]

Some ideas from Neil deGrasse Tyson


He makes some good points and his "disturbing" point is well worth keeping in mind.

[Platapus]

I think it is pretty safe to assume that evidence of higher intelligence life on other planets is demonstrated by their decision to avoid our planet.

Human thought is so primitive it's looked upon as an infectious disease in some of the better galaxies.

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I think it is pretty safe to assume that evidence of higher intelligence life on other planets is demonstrated by their decision to avoid our planet.

Pretty much my sentiments