Torpedoes don't miss.

[Der_Hans]

Is this intentional?

I just downloaded some missions for RA in the Kilo. I can't avoid enemy torpedoes even with Truth on.

Is it intentional that launched torpedoes have a 90% PK?

I don't remember them being this accurate.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by Der_Hans

Is this intentional?

I just downloaded some missions for RA in the Kilo. I can't avoid enemy torpedoes even with Truth on.

Is it intentional that launched torpedoes have a 90% PK?

I don't remember them being this accurate.

It's most likely modified from stock. My ventures into RA are quite limited at this point, but from what I've heard, it is indeed more difficult. In my opinion, it was actually too easy to dodge torps in stock Dangerous Waters. For me, they would almost always go after my active countermeasures and I could evade them quite easily.

[Mike Abberton]

From the original e-mail, I am assuming that you're in the Kilo.

Part of the problem for the Kilo is that it does not have much speed to get out of the search cone of an enemy torp.

It would be helpful though, to know what sort of torpedo we are talking about and from what distance it was launched. RA rates torpedoes individually for features like "decoy logic recognition" and "target reattack option".

As an example, the Mk 48 ADCAP entry in the RA Weapon Guide states the following for Decoy Logic Recognition: "It is meant that the torpedo is not absolutely insured from targeting on CM's. For example - if range between torpedo and CM large, the torpedo will not distinguish CM, accordingly, she will be targetting on CM. However - in the process of reduction of distance up to a CM and increase of strength of a signal, the torpedo will distinguish CM and to reject her from attack. The acoustic conditions, also can influence distance on which CM will be distinguished steadily. In general, it is possible to say so - than closer to CM the sensor control on a torpedo will be switched on, especially probability that a signal of a CM will be high on the level, and CM will be at once rejected from the valid target."

Russian to English translation issues aside, what I think that means is that if the shooter has a good solution and enables the torpedo close to the target (and any countermeasures it likely dropped), the CM is not likely to be effective. Clearing datum is critical if a torp is fired at you in RA, and the Kilo is not that good at clearing datum.

Older torps without (or perhaps with worse) decoy logic will likely be easier to avoid. Since it decoy logic appears to rely on the torpedoes own sensors, the quality of those sensors will likely also affect how will it will reject CMs.

Mike

[speed150mph]

Torpedo type is a big one, and as everyone else says the kilo has stealth on it's side, but not much else. If the brown stuff hits the fan, you won't have the speed to clear datum, the depth to get below them, and if you do, you lack the battery reserves to keep it up for long.

Your choice of torpedo tactics is a big factor too. What do you do when you get the torpedo in the water warning?

[Der_Hans]

When I get the warning of "Torpedo in the water!"

1. Go deep, as deep as I can go.
2. All ahead flank!

At short distance, pop CM's and put the torpedo on my stern then start zig-zagging and pop more countermeasures as I go.

At long distance put it on the beam, pop CM's, and run for it. If I hear it go active and ping me, put it on my stern and do as above.

[speed150mph]

try the Russian torpedo evasion method. Ive actually had some good results with it, but it is a little risky, especially when playing against another person.

If you believe that the enemy sub has fired the torpedo with the enabling range near your actual range, try launching an active and a passive countermeasure at your current depth, and fire a snap shot counter down the bearing. order flank speed, a change in depth, and turn IN to the torpedo. head down the torpedos bearing at top speed. once the torpedo has passed aft and you believe yourself to be out of detection range for a circle search torpedo on active search, slow right down to a crawl and listen for the enemy sub, and the torpedo.

the point of this is to leave your decoys as a target for the torpedo to engage in your absence, and get behind the torpedo before it enables. this will buy you some time, since the torpedo will have to do a full 180 degree turn before it can aquire and engage you, even more so if it goes for your decoys and then has to reengage, and if it is in snake mode and doesn't bite on the decoys, then your pretty well safe.

this also has the advantage of massively throwing off your enemys firing solution. since his evasion most likely left him deaf, he wont know what you did, and he may be running under the assumption that your bugged out, when your actually a lot closer to him then he thinks, and creeping.

as I said however, it is a risky tactic since if the enabling range is set well short of your position, and it enables in front of you, you will have no chance for evasion. but its one of those tricks where if it works, it works great.

[Wolfcat]

I have had quite a different experience with torpedoes. Besides Mk48ADCAP, other torps are not that bad. I had many unsuccessful shooting even with show truth on. Even Mk50 and mk54 are pretty ****ty. I did a couple of tests:

MK50:
1. This torp is extremely short ranged, only 5nmi at 55kts. Pretty much useless to launch from warships like Perry FFG. Especially when engaging high performance subs like Akula. By the time your ship gets into a good firing position, the sub given its better detection range has already launched on u. If you have enough speed you can easily outrun and outlast this sucker. Also, a solid lock won't guarantee a hit. A few of my tests showed that the torp sometimes doesn't a violent nose pitchup just before impact on the target thus losing the track. I am not sure if it's a bug or something. You can do your own tests under "show truth".

2. Even using from an air platform, this weapon still has lousy performance. You basically need drop the torp on top of the sub.

MK54:
This torp has a much better range. It's a much better weapon for warships. However, it also sometimes does nose pitchup like MK50. Because it's a slower weapon, a sub can often still outrun it. Also, MK54 is very stupid and susceptible to CMs. Even at 2000yards range, it still can tell apart CM and real target. For Mk48, at this range it's almost a guarantee hit with or without a CM.

PS:

FPS, remember your multiplayer mission using RA mod? All ur and your friend's torps missed that kilo? It's not cuz you didn't locate him. It's cuz you have really lousy weapons. In RA, MK50 and MK54 can't pretty much hit a thing.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by Wolfcat

PS:

FPS, remember your multiplayer mission using RA mod? All ur and your friend's torps missed that kilo? It's not cuz you didn't locate him. It's cuz you have really lousy weapons. In RA, MK50 and MK54 can't pretty much hit a thing.

I do remember that. However, there was a time in the past when I had no problem hitting an Oscar-II with either Mark 50s or Mark 54s. But, that was an older version of RA. And the Oscar-II is like a school bus while a Kilo is like a Mini.

[Wolfcat]

Oscar is ok. Victor, akula, kilo are really hard to hit. Also I did some more tests over the weekend. Those high end subs are very hard to kill especially when there is a thermo layer. The AIs are very smart in using the layer as cover by going up and down it. Also the seeker's effective range seems to have been reduced as well. If you activate your weapon like 1/2 of the distance, it's very easy to miss. Knowing the exact distance to the target is imperative to achieve a successful kill. Under normal game condition with show truth turned off, ASW becomes a difficult task cuz the actual distance is very hard to determine. Before, I can get by with my soso TMA skill, now under RA, I pretty much have to rely on AI TMA. Before playing US subs, if I can get an ok TMA solution and got the first shot off, I can pretty much hit the target. Now, even with an excellent TMA solution, I have to first use wire guidance to babysit the torp until it's very close to the target (or at least pass the first CM spread) then turn the seeker on. Otherwise, good luck on getting an Akula. If any of you have issues doing ASW in deep waters with layers using torp either MK48, mk50 or mk54 please let me know. I have worked out a few tactics under show truth environment and tested under normal game conditions with show truth off.

[Cybermat47]

When I get a torpedo warning, I fire a torpedo at the enemy while steering away at top speed and diving to max depth. When I'm on course, I launch countermeasures, active and passive. It works, but seeing as I mostly play in the Alfa, this could be due to the 500m max depth and top speed of 43 knots.

[Wolfcat]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

When I get a torpedo warning, I fire a torpedo at the enemy while steering away at top speed and diving to max depth. When I'm on course, I launch countermeasures, active and passive. It works, but seeing as I mostly play in the Alfa, this could be due to the 500m max depth and top speed of 43 knots.

This is a good tip. I would also go at 90 degrees at the bearing of the torp. Once torps run past CMs, it will be difficult for it to reengage. Also, try to set CMs at different depth, best if you can put a layer between you and CMs. Not sure if this would work for stock or LWAMI versions, but works fine in RA where CMs are much more powerful and weapon seekers are weaker.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by Wolfcat

This is a good tip. I would also go at 90 degrees at the bearing of the torp. Once torps run past CMs, it will be difficult for it to reengage. Also, try to set CMs at different depth, best if you can put a layer between you and CMs. Not sure if this would work for stock or LWAMI versions, but works fine in RA where CMs are much more powerful and weapon seekers are weaker.

Yeah, I'm a fan of the sidestep. It's basically mandatory if someone could be using Shkvals, 90 degrees is the only way to really clear datum from the magnetic influenced warhead.

[Wolfcat]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

Yeah, I'm a fan of the sidestep. It's basically mandatory if someone could be using Shkvals, 90 degrees is the only way to really clear datum from the magnetic influenced warhead.

Ya, Shakval is a nasty counter attack weapon. Gotta be quick to get outa dodge. Btw, FPS, any more tutorial videos? I love the one on TMA. The bearing concave and convex thing is something I never know before.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by Wolfcat

Ya, Shakval is a nasty counter attack weapon. Gotta be quick to get outa dodge. Btw, FPS, any more tutorial videos? I love the one on TMA. The bearing concave and convex thing is something I never know before.

Thanks so much! And yup! I'm making a lot less videos on a daily basis now than I was a few weeks ago so I now have more time to get back to nuclear videos and DW tutorials.

[Wolfcat]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

Thanks so much! And yup! I'm making a lot less videos on a daily basis now than I was a few weeks ago so I now have more time to get back to nuclear videos and DW tutorials.

I see. I am planning to create a new campaign using RA mod. It's gonna feature more advanced weapons such as VA class as opposed to LA of cold war era. Just wonder where I can find any tutorials on how to make a campaign.