Main pump efficiency

[Sniper297]

There I was just trying to do my job, and them party pooper destroyers dumped a bunch of depth charges on me. So now I got the repair party working overtime, get the bulkheads patched up while running the motors at full speed and blowing ballast when she starts sinking too deep, tediously alternating between trying to avoid going too deep or broaching over and over and over and over. All bulkheads fixed, still doing the porpoising act over and over and over, why ain't that blasted pump emptying the water now that everything is patched up?

Tiresome to say the least, so I started hunting for where exactly is the efficiency of the main pump so I can at least double it? No luck, not mentioned in the SIM or DAT files anywhere I can find. zones.cfg maybe;

[PumpsXXI]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=2600
Destructible=No
Armor Level=10
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Father=30
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

Near as I can tell nothing in that has adjustments for how fast it empties the flood, no gallons per minute or anything obvious. Anyone got any ideas where I might increase the power of the bailing pump?

[ETR3(SS)]

I went down this path at one point as well for the 688(i) and Ohio. Unfortunately I came up just as empty handed. I even tried adding multiple pumps to see if that did anything. Don't recall it helping any. Try removing it as much as possible from the boat? See if it still works despite not being "there."

[TorpX]

I've read that a SH3 mod (NYGM, I think) changed the floatability to limit the hovering of subs. You might be able to accomplish what you want with that.

[Sniper297]

Not really what I'm looking for, thanks anyway. Main problem is realism, sneak away at a depth deep enough to be hard to detect while staying shallow enough to limit flooding, while them lazy scurvy dogs actually do their job and plug the leaks instead of going on a 3 hour coffee break.

One potential in the NSS_SubType.upc file;

RepairsCoef= 0.072

Assuming that's a multiplier for how efficient the DC crew is, I changed it to

RepairsCoef= 0.1

Did a "REPLACE ALL" for that file so all compartments have 0.1 instead of 0.072, only ran one test so far but they repaired damage faster than usual.

As usual the biggest challenge is to simulate realistic with programming that's not designed for realism. Testing is another issue, some tests I get all four destroyers dropping accurately and really hammering me, others they miss completely even when I work at making it easy for them.

if you cant change the pump flow rate then what about cutting in half the flooding times for the sub? would this not achieve the same goal and yet it is something you "can" adjust?

I too find the pumps unrealistically long time to expel the water as though they were doing it with a tea cup

[Sniper297]

What's really redonculous is when you're on the surface and the conning tower floods. I might try that if the repair coefficient turns out to be unsat, which file has the flooding speeds? Hopefully it's not that screwy zones.cfg file, why they made a stewpot with settings for new small merchant, battleship sampan and U-boat all mixed up together is still a puzzle. And flooding time 120 for a KEEL?! How does a keel flood separately from the bilges? As silly as making a flight sim where a propeller blade is on fire instead of the engine. Main reason I'm reluctant to play with that file is trying to find what's attached to what, I try to make one of the diesels indestructable and end up with an unsinkable tugboat.

[ETR3(SS)]

Here's something that might help you with what a realistic dewattering rate would be: http://www.maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/trim/index.htm

It would seem that a minimum rate of 1000 lbs/min (116 gallons/min of seawater) is well within reason.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Not really what I'm looking for, thanks anyway.

When I suggested 'floatability', I meant the value in the [PumpsXXI] file. I should have made that clear. Don't know if it would work. Odd that there is no [PumpsFleetboat] zone; makes me wonder if it isn't hardcoded.

The zones.cfg also has the flood time parameters.

[Sniper297]

"I meant the value in the [PumpsXXI] file"

Only files I find with the word "pumps" are all *pump*.ogg which are sounds.

If you mean the datablock in zones.cfg file;

[PumpsXXI]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=2600
Destructible=No
Armor Level=10
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Father=30
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

Any clue what flotability should be rather than zero? My guess looking at the flotability of other objects would be whether or not the object floats and how well it floats, which an engine or pump wouldn't.

Screwy part is FloodingTime=59.999996 - that's such a specific oddball number there has to be a reason for it, anyone know what that's about? Lot of datablocks have that number.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Only files I find with the word "pumps" are all *pump*.ogg which are sounds.

If you mean the datablock in zones.cfg file;

Yes, that is what I mean.

Any clue what flotability should be rather than zero? My guess looking at the flotability of other objects would be whether or not the object floats and how well it floats, which an engine or pump wouldn't.

I seemed odd to me, also. That's why I mentioned it; it really isn't intuitive. I would try a few small (positive) values. It may not do anything. There certainly SHOULD be something we can use to adjust the pumps, after all.

Here is part of a post about it (for SH3, of course):

NYGM HummingBird
[PumpsXXI]
Multiplier=1.0
;Flotability=0.15 ->> Original value
Flotability=0.005 ->> change this value
.
.
.
Changing the Flotability to the above value I got the sub to sink about 50m over 12 hours which is sort of acceptable. The funny thing is that the sink rate is not consistent, and will even rise a little at arbitrary depths, but the sub generally sinks, albeit much slower. A speed of 1 knot will keep you more or less at constant depth at 245m, but you'll need two knots or more to bring the sub up.
Still testing and playing around...

[Sniper297]

Yeah, I've been saying all along that SH4 is nothing more than SH3 with type 21 U-boats changed to the general shape of US fleet boats. Possibly they started to change some headings to "FLT" instead of "XXI" but the suits made them wrap it up and ship it before it was finished.

"Changing the Flotability to the above value I got the sub to sink about 50m over 12 hours which is sort of acceptable. The funny thing is that the sink rate is not consistent, and will even rise a little at arbitrary depths, but the sub generally sinks, albeit much slower. A speed of 1 knot will keep you more or less at constant depth at 245m, but you'll need two knots or more to bring the sub up."

Got a link to the thread? Question here is was he playing with the flotability of the sub itself (to prevent that ridiculous hovering while stopped dead) or with the pumps? If it was the pumps did he have flooded compartments while testing? What I'm looking for is something that will speed up the rate at which flooded compartments are emptied, but something that lessens the sink rate while compartments are flooded would be a reasonable compromise.

[TorpX]

Sorry, I don't have a link. I often save posts or parts of one if it looks like something I might want to try later.

The context was in terms of preventing an undamaged sub from hovering. The implication was that the pumps zone is unique, and it is not just another sub zone.

But like I said, I don't know if it will work in SH4.

[Sniper297]

Probably not, if the original value was 0.15 and he reduced it to make it sink in SH3. Value in SH4 is zero, can't reduce that. Possibly add something to it so it rises to the surface if you don't maintain some motion at periscope depth? Either way eliminating the perfect neutral buoyancy at a dead stop would be a good thing. What I'm still "at sea" about is the "Father=30" value, assuming the program actually uses whatever that is, it has to be something lost in the translation from Romanian.

[TorpX]

What I'm still "at sea" about is the "Father=30" value ..

My understanding of that is that it links this zone to zone 30, which would be the electric motor room. The regular pumps zone (not the XXI) links to 32, the control room.