How are we defining noob?

wutzthedeal · 12-31-14, 05:16 AM

Hey guys. I'm ex-USAF and know nothing about what happens underwater. I've been searching YouTube and this forum and I think I might need some real hand-holding here for SH4.

The only concept I've even begun to understand about SH4 is intercepting. I watch these videos and read these guides and they say things like, "Then, get your range," or they pop out a compass or protractor and my thoughts are, "Wait, wait, and wait. Hold on. What are we doing here?" While I generally trust anybody named Werner when it comes to naval advice, I couldn't get his videos to load. If sub sim knowledge was on a 1 to 100 scale with 100 representing somebody who knows absolutely everything, I'm like a 3. The videos and guides I'm seeing seem to be starting around 15 or above. Go easy on me; I was an English major and math is not my friend. All help is appreciated! Where would you send an uber-noob? It was a miracle that I got through the convoy mission in sub school on the 2nd try because I had no effing idea what I was doing. Last time I played a sub sim was like 1996 on an old Commodore and all I remember is Russians and wired Mark torpedoes.

Spraug · 12-31-14, 05:54 AM

First of all, hi there.

Being quite new to this too, I can tell you, you can learn fast and you've come to the right forum.

The most important thing is not to get math right, but to have fun playing.

Personally, I would first play a career with only low/medium difficulty to learn about the simulated environment: what's it like "at sea"? How do convoys work? How do I approach them? Where do I find targets? How do escorts "think" and react? etc. Play with map contacts on and TDC (the targeting "computer") on automatic and send a couple of ships to the bottom.

Then you'll understand the videos so much better, because you have context.

The TDC is complex, but not really difficult

and it mainly does two things for you:
a) I you get at least two measurements on a target ship, it can calculate speed for you (very useful, but not 100% accurate, so get as many measurements as you can - well, several, not unlimited),
b) The position keeper will predict enemy movement for you (so long as the target does not change course), giving you firing solutions for your torpedoes.

Beyond that there are Dick O'Kane, sonar, radar, vectoring and half a bazillion other creative ways that push the system far beyond what it was designed for, which will allow you faster and very accurate attacks under diverse conditions.

Everybody (except maybe the actual submariners that learned everything in real-life) learned it step by step, so just take your time and it will come all by itself (mostly).

Just my two cents, the experts here will put it more accurately.

depthtok33l · 12-31-14, 07:00 AM

Welcome to the forums! I'm that guy from YouTube

.

wutzthedeal · 12-31-14, 08:23 AM

Great responses, thank you. Hey, I have really enjoyed these YouTube vids (especially some of the awkward humor), but for me, it's like getting into verb conjugation on the first day of an introductory French class. I'm starting to wonder if this stuff can actually be dumbed-down enough for me to find the first few rungs of the ladder! PS I know why they have to do psych. profiles on potential submariners now. Takes a special character imo.

Sailor Steve · 12-31-14, 09:58 AM

Welcome aboard!

As Spraug suggested, the best thing you can do right now is play in the easiest mode. It does the targeting automagically; all you have to do is make sure the little arrow is green. I mostly play SH3, and in that one they had an in-between mode, in which you had it set for Manual Targeting but your 1st Mate did all the info gathering for you, which made it easy but also made it feel real.

Unfortunately SH4 does away with that, so you're stuck with it either being very easy or very hard. My math skills are pretty much non-existent, as are my gathering skills, so after almost eight years I still play on the easy mode.

All that said, there are people here who are very good at it. Expect help soon.

Spraug · 12-31-14, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

… they had an in-between mode, in which you had it set for Manual Targeting but your 1st Mate did all the info gathering for you, which made it easy but also made it feel real …

Now that's something I'd like in SH4, too. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist. Maybe someone can program a new SH? Ubisoft maybe?

Anyway. Start with easy. Then, when you go for manual TDC, leave the map contacts on. That way you can check all your measurements and get a better feeling for them.

Bye the way, the math is not that difficult if I'm not mistaken. Your attack angle is easily calculable as:

alpha = arcsin {(a*sin gamma)/(a^2+b^2-2*a*b*cos gamma)}, where:
a = targets speed,
b = torpedo speed,
gamma = 180°-Angle on Bow.

And believe me: NOBODY does that calculation! Really nobody. You can play this game without ANY math and have a challenge and fun at the same time. Just get used to it first, then you start fiddling with the gritty stuff and eventually with mods.

fireftr18 · 12-31-14, 04:04 PM

Welcome aboard wutzthedeal!

Always good to get some new people to harass, err, I mean help.
Some good advice from Spraug.
I tell people to make extreme use of the first tutorial. Use it to practice diving, finding targets, everything you will need to do. Use it to learn the controls.
Then, do a campaign for a practice as Spraug wrote.
As you get more comfortable, then add mods and experiment with them.
As far as manual targeting/auto targeting, I don't like the manual targeting. To me, it's an exercise in tedium.

Now go wax the conning tower.

Aktungbby · 12-31-14, 04:12 PM

wutzthedeal!

Spraug · 12-31-14, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spraug

… Your attack angle is easily calculable as:

alpha = arcsin {(a*sin gamma)/(a^2+b^2-2*a*b*cos gamma)}, where:
a = targets speed,
b = torpedo speed,
gamma = 180°-Angle on Bow.

Actually, I failed to mention, that that only works if your boat is already pointed at the impact point. If the torpedo also has to manoeuvre, it gets INTERESTING. That is beyond the math anybody could do quickly, on the fly while the target moves.

And gamma is AoB at impact point.

CapnZero · 12-31-14, 08:05 PM

Glad to see a newer player than I joining the group!

You should be able to find a video called Legions SH4 Noob Guide. It is quite good and about 20 minutes in length covering exactly that subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutzthedeal

Hey guys. I'm ex-USAF and know nothing about what happens underwater. I've been searching YouTube and this forum and I think I might need some real hand-holding here for SH4.

The only concept I've even begun to understand about SH4 is intercepting. I watch these videos and read these guides and they say things like, "Then, get your range," or they pop out a compass or protractor and my thoughts are, "Wait, wait, and wait. Hold on. What are we doing here?" While I generally trust anybody named Werner when it comes to naval advice, I couldn't get his videos to load. If sub sim knowledge was on a 1 to 100 scale with 100 representing somebody who knows absolutely everything, I'm like a 3. The videos and guides I'm seeing seem to be starting around 15 or above. Go easy on me; I was an English major and math is not my friend. All help is appreciated! Where would you send an uber-noob? It was a miracle that I got through the convoy mission in sub school on the 2nd try because I had no effing idea what I was doing. Last time I played a sub sim was like 1996 on an old Commodore and all I remember is Russians and wired Mark torpedoes.

Aktungbby · 12-31-14, 10:29 PM

CapnZero!

wutzthedeal · 01-01-15, 08:37 AM

Thank you all for the warm welcome. Now I have hope; I can just play on easy settings. That I can do. I'm watching the Noob guide (you won't believe this but it's true) for the third time now, trying to fully understand everything. One thing I gotta give sub sim people and I'll pat myself on the back for a second, too, is the patience required. Sub sims and those that require similar patience (realistic sniper games, hitman games, etc.) separate the men from the boys. Anyway I went ahead and started the career mode and am heading across the Pacific. Who the hell puts an airman in a submarine? Thank you computers and software.

Jimbuna · 01-01-15, 08:45 AM

Welcome to SubSim CapnZero

Jimbuna · 01-01-15, 08:47 AM

Welcome wutzthedeal

captcrane · 01-01-15, 10:45 AM

Ahoy wutzthedeal I too am a beginner at this game. There is a lot of info here and and things can get confusing. I went from automatic to manual targeting. Here is a couple of things that helped me understanding why I kept missing with my torpedos. 1st after I feed course speed and range and started the TDC I looked at the attack map and that shows the course of the torpedo and how accurate your entries in relation to your target. Another thing I did in the beginning is I would save the game at the point where I was about to attack a convoy or ship that helped me more than "school" to practice approaches and try different things. For me the best attack is at a 90 degree angle then try to get in the middle of a convoy where it becomes a free for all Hope this helps

12-31-14, 05:16 AM	#1
wutzthedeal Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	How are we defining noob? Hey guys. I'm ex-USAF and know nothing about what happens underwater. I've been searching YouTube and this forum and I think I might need some real hand-holding here for SH4. The only concept I've even begun to understand about SH4 is intercepting. I watch these videos and read these guides and they say things like, "Then, get your range," or they pop out a compass or protractor and my thoughts are, "Wait, wait, and wait. Hold on. What are we doing here?" While I generally trust anybody named Werner when it comes to naval advice, I couldn't get his videos to load. If sub sim knowledge was on a 1 to 100 scale with 100 representing somebody who knows absolutely everything, I'm like a 3. The videos and guides I'm seeing seem to be starting around 15 or above. Go easy on me; I was an English major and math is not my friend. All help is appreciated! Where would you send an uber-noob? It was a miracle that I got through the convoy mission in sub school on the 2nd try because I had no effing idea what I was doing. Last time I played a sub sim was like 1996 on an old Commodore and all I remember is Russians and wired Mark torpedoes.

12-31-14, 05:54 AM	#2
Spraug Helmsman Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 105 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Don't panic! First of all, hi there. Being quite new to this too, I can tell you, you can learn fast and you've come to the right forum. The most important thing is not to get math right, but to have fun playing. Personally, I would first play a career with only low/medium difficulty to learn about the simulated environment: what's it like "at sea"? How do convoys work? How do I approach them? Where do I find targets? How do escorts "think" and react? etc. Play with map contacts on and TDC (the targeting "computer") on automatic and send a couple of ships to the bottom. Then you'll understand the videos so much better, because you have context. The TDC is complex, but not really difficult and it mainly does two things for you: a) I you get at least two measurements on a target ship, it can calculate speed for you (very useful, but not 100% accurate, so get as many measurements as you can - well, several, not unlimited), b) The position keeper will predict enemy movement for you (so long as the target does not change course), giving you firing solutions for your torpedoes. Beyond that there are Dick O'Kane, sonar, radar, vectoring and half a bazillion other creative ways that push the system far beyond what it was designed for, which will allow you faster and very accurate attacks under diverse conditions. Everybody (except maybe the actual submariners that learned everything in real-life) learned it step by step, so just take your time and it will come all by itself (mostly). Just my two cents, the experts here will put it more accurately. __________________ Playing: Windows 10 - Steam - Silent Hunter 4 v1.5 1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5 1_TMO_25_small_patch RSRDC_TMO_V502 RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1 SCAF for RSRDC v502_2.0 IJN_Radar_Fix_2 Last edited by Spraug; 12-31-14 at 05:56 AM. Reason: typos

12-31-14, 09:58 AM	#5
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Welcome aboard! As Spraug suggested, the best thing you can do right now is play in the easiest mode. It does the targeting automagically; all you have to do is make sure the little arrow is green. I mostly play SH3, and in that one they had an in-between mode, in which you had it set for Manual Targeting but your 1st Mate did all the info gathering for you, which made it easy but also made it feel real. Unfortunately SH4 does away with that, so you're stuck with it either being very easy or very hard. My math skills are pretty much non-existent, as are my gathering skills, so after almost eight years I still play on the easy mode. All that said, there are people here who are very good at it. Expect help soon. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-31-14, 04:04 PM	#7
fireftr18 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,528 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard wutzthedeal! Always good to get some new people to harass, err, I mean help. Some good advice from Spraug. I tell people to make extreme use of the first tutorial. Use it to practice diving, finding targets, everything you will need to do. Use it to learn the controls. Then, do a campaign for a practice as Spraug wrote. As you get more comfortable, then add mods and experiment with them. As far as manual targeting/auto targeting, I don't like the manual targeting. To me, it's an exercise in tedium. Now go wax the conning tower. __________________ Of all the forms of Martial Arts, Karaoke causes the most pain!

12-31-14, 04:12 PM	#8
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 29,987 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	welcome aboard! wutzthedeal! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

12-31-14, 07:00 AM	#3
depthtok33l Sparky Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 156 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Welcome to the forums! I'm that guy from YouTube .

12-31-14, 08:23 AM	#4
wutzthedeal Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Great responses, thank you. Hey, I have really enjoyed these YouTube vids (especially some of the awkward humor), but for me, it's like getting into verb conjugation on the first day of an introductory French class. I'm starting to wonder if this stuff can actually be dumbed-down enough for me to find the first few rungs of the ladder! PS I know why they have to do psych. profiles on potential submariners now. Takes a special character imo.

12-31-14, 10:29 PM	#11
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 29,987 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	welcome aboard! CapnZero! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

01-01-15, 08:37 AM	#12
wutzthedeal Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Thank you all for the warm welcome. Now I have hope; I can just play on easy settings. That I can do. I'm watching the Noob guide (you won't believe this but it's true) for the third time now, trying to fully understand everything. One thing I gotta give sub sim people and I'll pat myself on the back for a second, too, is the patience required. Sub sims and those that require similar patience (realistic sniper games, hitman games, etc.) separate the men from the boys. Anyway I went ahead and started the career mode and am heading across the Pacific. Who the hell puts an airman in a submarine? Thank you computers and software. Last edited by wutzthedeal; 01-01-15 at 10:16 AM.

01-01-15, 08:45 AM	#13
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,481 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Welcome to SubSim CapnZero __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-01-15, 08:47 AM	#14
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,481 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Welcome wutzthedeal __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-01-15, 10:45 AM	#15
captcrane Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 139 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 0	Ahoy wutzthedeal I too am a beginner at this game. There is a lot of info here and and things can get confusing. I went from automatic to manual targeting. Here is a couple of things that helped me understanding why I kept missing with my torpedos. 1st after I feed course speed and range and started the TDC I looked at the attack map and that shows the course of the torpedo and how accurate your entries in relation to your target. Another thing I did in the beginning is I would save the game at the point where I was about to attack a convoy or ship that helped me more than "school" to practice approaches and try different things. For me the best attack is at a 90 degree angle then try to get in the middle of a convoy where it becomes a free for all Hope this helps