How to sink a "stationary" destroyer

Some info first. I'm using TMO 2.5, american campaign, S-18 sub.
So after a failed attempt at attacking an enemy convoy which resulted in game of hide and seek with few destroyers I decided to wait for a couple of hours at max depth until bastards get bored and leave me be. Waited until 21:00, ascended to periscope depth to check if coast is clear and saw lone stationary destroyer still waiting for me to surface.
Since he was stationary and unaware of my location I decided to sink him as he was perfect target (Or I thought so at least). Moved to his starboard at perfect 90% angle, about 1400 yards away and launched 3 torpedoes at him. All seemed well until he saw torpedoes on the way, started the engines and swiftly evaded them all (BTW. Those destroyers accelerate ridiculously fast. Like from 0kt to something that fells like 10kts in 4 or 5 seconds. I'm not claiming to be an expert on ships but that seems kinda silly)
So I loaded a save, got in the same position and tried again, this time launching the first torpedo directly at him, and next 3 torpedoes at 3,6 and 9% offset to the right so they catch him even if he starts engines and moves forward. This didn't work either. He managed to outrun all those too. Tried again. First torpedo directly at him, next 3 at 10,15 and 20% offset. He sees them so soon that he outruns even that 20% offset torpedo. I tried again at point blank range (500 yards) that didn't work either.
Anyway I'm out of ideas. Is there any tricks when trying to sink a destroyer? I tried all kind of things. Bastards just sees torpedoes and gets away. I am using Mk 10 torpedoes which are kinda slow to be honest but still...

[merc4ulfate]

First ... why waste fish?
Second ... what is your mod order?
Third ... did you have your outer doors already open?
Fourth ... why waste fish?

Fifth ... move in front of the destroyer ... raise scope at 500 yards ... open all outer doors ... move ahead flank ... launch one at 000 one at 010 and one at 350 all set to magnetic influence as fast as you can. He will die.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

First ... why waste fish?

... why waste fish?

I can't argue with your logic here.

Originally Posted by Dando

Since he was stationary and unaware of my location I decided to sink him as he was perfect target (Or I thought so at least). Moved to his starboard at perfect 90% angle, about 1400 yards away and launched 3 torpedoes at him. All seemed well until he saw torpedoes on the way, started the engines and swiftly evaded them all (BTW. Those destroyers accelerate ridiculously fast. Like from 0kt to something that fells like 10kts in 4 or 5 seconds. I'm not claiming to be an expert on ships but that seems kinda silly)

....
I am using Mk 10 torpedoes which are kinda slow to be honest but still...

I had a somewhat similar experience, once. An attempt at stalking a Momi-class patrol boat ended in failure when he spotted me. It was just a little too light, eventhough the moon hadn't risen yet. Shells fly through the air, and we make a very hasty dive. Later, I come up to periscope depth and find him sitting still waiting for me to appear.

My first idea was to just sneak away, but it was too much of a temptation. I had to slowly turn the boat around (I was also in an S-boat). This took some time, and I half expected him to be gone before I was ready. Finally, in position, I line up a straight shot and carefully aim a single torpedo just behind the bow. He was still drifting a bit, but not much - probably less than a knot. I carefully estimate the range, which was a little over 3,000 yds., and launch.

As I am counting down the seconds, I think this should be in the bag, as it is a dark night. They don't have magical night vision do they? As the time gets close to the predicted impact time, the target springs into motion! Curses! I've wasted a torpedo! But a moment later I'm relieved to see a large, fiery explosion near the stern. Another 2 seconds, and he would have been well clear. Perhaps, I was lucky, in that it was not a true destroyer, but only a 'patrol boat', which I guess was naval-speak for economy destroyer.

Anyway, my thoughts were as yours; it does seem kinda silly. The way they can rocket forward, or skid to a halt reminds me of a Roadrunner cartoon.

BTW, I am working a mod that will greatly reduce the hyper-drive acceleration of ships in SH4.

In one test with a IJN destroyer (I forget which one), the stock version could move one ship length in 11 sec., from a stop. The modded version took 26 sec. That's still pretty fast, but plausible, I think.



For the most part, though, I try to steer clear of them.

[in_vino_vomitus]

Another vote for saving the fish here - Destroyers are more bother than they're worth and the aim is to stop troops and materiel moving around Every spread of torpedoes you fire at a destroyer is a tanker full of oil that makes it through to the Empire - My conscience has never given me the slightest grief over sneaking away from them

[Jimbuna]

A destroyer isn't worth a torpedo but if you can't resist, aim for the bow then another half a ships length in front.

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

A destroyer isn't worth a torpedo but if you can't resist, aim for the bow then another half a ships length in front.

or just use my ship maneuvering fix mod that stops the unrealistic rapid acceleration of all ships in the game

and if you are going to shoot a DD you only need one torp so 3 is wasteful and excessive, its rare to need more then one to sink a DD

[merc4ulfate]

Yes websters mod for this does work to eliminate the issue.

Webster???? Is that mod ok to use with RFB+RSRD???? I tried using ISP but it reduced submarine top speed.

[anotherdemon]

I guess fire one at his stern (so he speeds up rather than reverses), and then a few along his path of acceleration at 10 degree intervals (though this would depend on how far away you are from him).

Down the throat is the best way, as someone posted. Make noise, head at him at flank, scope up, ping away at the ground/him, and then fire 3 at him when he's about 500 meters or so away; 1 straight down, and one 10 degrees either side.

Nothing wrong with expending a few torps for one DD. That's a good exchange.

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

Yes websters mod for this does work to eliminate the issue.

Webster???? Is that mod ok to use with RFB+RSRD???? I tried using ISP but it reduced submarine top speed.

should work ok, try it and see, but sometimes RFB gets hinky about mixing other mods with it. RFB was "supposed" to have its own ship physics mod to address the issue doing it a different way then mine but if you still have issues then I guess doing things their way didn't work well.

just be sure to add my mod last in the order and there still might be a few of the new ships added to the game by RFB that may not have speeds adjusted by the mod because it was created for the ships found in the stock game.

I also want to point out I tried to be realistic with my mod so DD still accelerate fast enough to get out of the way of a torpedo unless you reduce the distance to target so with DD its best to be within 1000 range and don't use the auto target aim spot unless the DD is stationary but if its under way then aim for the first bow gun so you are sure to get a hit because they will always try to speed up if they sight your torpedo

[Armistead]

Not gonna take time to read all, but seems you have the right idea, that's how I do it and works for me, except I shoot by the wire, tad in front of bow, bow and MOT. If you use offset, sometime the spread is a lil wide..but you got close.
Obvious the first one is to hold him in place so the next two hit.

Another thing, is you want all the torps to arrive together as quickly as possible so he can't take turns outrunning each one, fire fast as you can. Also there's math to it, but I guess at it, firing first torp slow speed, the next ones fast....

You may want to try from DTT at his stern if you can get in position and fire a spread.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Webster

should work ok, try it and see, but sometimes RFB gets hinky about mixing other mods with it. RFB was "supposed" to have its own ship physics mod to address the issue doing it a different way then mine but if you still have issues then I guess doing things their way didn't work well.

If you're talking about the SAP [Ship Acceleration Physics] series, it was confusing, because the ship types were done piecemeal, and there had to be separate versions for plain RFB, and RFB + RSRDC. I don't think all the ships were ever finished, so you would have some work a certain way, and other not.



I want to release one version of ISP, that will cover all the ships in RFB + RSRDC, as I think this makes the most sense. I believe most who use RFB also use RSRDC.



I think enemy ships will always have some advantages in this game, as they can see torpedoes in the water, even on a dark night. I've seen merchants evade torps for this reason, and have no idea as to how to fix it (the night vision thing, I mean).

[Seahawk14]

I've tried this a few times. Don't always nail it, and when I do I only curse if I'm low on torpedoes. But usually I'm right on the money.

In the interest of full disclosure, I use the stock SHIV Gold Edition on medium settings. Yes, the stock version: I'm lame, I know. But I really don't know much about modding, so baby steps here. I have a German-language mod installed, as I tend to use the (again stock) U-Boat campaign almost exclusively. That's as far as I've managed to get.

I also use the "automatic targeting" option: I failed just about every math course I've ever taken, so I'm already disinclined to do it here. And to be honest, manually targeting isn't fun for me, and if the whole point of playing a game is to have fun, what sense does it make to apply an aspect of it that is anything but fun? Besides, while it's not "realistic" in that sense, if you think about it, weren't skippers usually on the periscope & one of their subordinate officers was the one doing all the trigonometry?

Anyways, back on topic. My standard method for attacking ships is as follows:

If it's a large, slow-moving vessel, aim amidships and all secondary shots are aimed closer to the bow
If it's a large, fast-moving vessel, aim approximately where the bridge is and all seconary shots confined to the foc'sle, likewise approaching the bow.
If it's a small, fast-moving vessel, get out of the way!

Nah, jj . The only time I'll attack a DD outside of a self-defense situation is if there are 4 or more in a convoy I need to hit, if it's guarding a port I need to enter for recon purposes, or if it's sitting in the water trying to find me.

In the first situation, I'll send a torpedo to the lead DD and do my best to hit wherever the inevitable tanker might be, for tonnage purposes. I try to time my shots to where the DD and my intended target go up as close to simultaneously as possible. If there is any disparity between the explosions, I try to make the DD the first one that goes. The reason for this is that it gives me a better chance to make my escape with the closest DD neutralized.

In the third situation, I approach at an oblique angle from the DD's amidships line from behind, knowing that their sonar doesn't work behind them. I aim at the bow as close as I can get without passing it. Very rarely does this fail to work. If the DD doesn't move, his bow is destroyed & he's going down. If the DD picks up my torpedo coming to it, odds are not very good that he'll outrun it, in which case his engine room is destroyed and he sinks from the stern.

I have a really interesting anecdote about a past game I played trying to recon Sydney Harbor with the Mk XLVIII Walther U-Boat, but I'll save that for another day.

Originally Posted by TorpX

I think enemy ships will always have some advantages in this game, as they can see torpedoes in the water, even on a dark night. I've seen merchants evade torps for this reason, and have no idea as to how to fix it (the night vision thing, I mean).

well it was said that using the brighter torpedo wakes mod by capt cox was making the AI detect torps easier and from farther off so maybe exploring a dimmer torp wake might make them less detectible. with DD they also detect torps by sounds so making torps quieter might also make them less detectible.

just thoughts on something to look into that might help you get better results

Originally Posted by Seahawk14

I've tried this a few times. Don't always nail it, and when I do I only curse if I'm low on torpedoes. But usually I'm right on the money.

In the interest of full disclosure, I use the stock SHIV Gold Edition on medium settings. Yes, the stock version: I'm lame, I know. But I really don't know much about modding, so baby steps here. I have a German-language mod installed, as I tend to use the (again stock) U-Boat campaign almost exclusively. That's as far as I've managed to get.

you should try my GFO mod, its designed to be mainly fixes for the game without making and "mod" changes but there were a few added anyway that I felt were needed and didn't change the AI or the feel of the game, they were more for immersion and realistic looking textures.

its like a better less buggy version of the stock game with extra added content included like a large package of single missions to play for those who don't have the time or desire to get into long drawn out campaign missions aspects of the game

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Webster

well it was said that using the brighter torpedo wakes mod by capt cox was making the AI detect torps easier and from farther off so maybe exploring a dimmer torp wake might make them less detectible. with DD they also detect torps by sounds so making torps quieter might also make them less detectible.

just thoughts on something to look into that might help you get better results

Wonder if the numerous light values affect torp wakes the same as they do bows wakes. I've honestly never looked or wonder if it would matter much.