A question to the American-about your cash assistance

[mapuc]

On Facebook we have a discussion about our(danish) cash assistance. Some say they get to much and that's why they don't want to take a job. Some say they get just barely to survive.

Then someone said that in USA their socialpolitics is perfect and that Denmarks should copy their way

So is your social politics a good thing or??

Markus

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by mapuc

On Facebook we have a discussion about our(danish) cash assistance. Some say they get to much and that's why they don't want to take a job. Some say they get just barely to survive.

Then someone said that in USA their socialpolitics is perfect and that Denmarks should copy their way

So is your social politics a good thing or??

Markus

All I can say is... the exact same argument has been going on here probably for as long as there has been public assistance. With the two sides taking basically the same positions as you've described above.

I would venture to say that the answer is that it's just not that simple (it never is). Undoubtedly there are people who desperately need the help and are just scraping by with what they get. Certainly there are people who abuse the system, and there are those who don't abuse it so much as they become dependent on it and that dependency is passed on to subsequent generations through lack of a better example.

I work for a good-sized medical practice (four offices in two states) and we have a lot of patients who are on Medicaid (basically health insurance provided entirely by the government) and in my 20 years there I've seen what looks, at least, like every variation mentioned above and then some.

I've also seen patients who were in dire financial straits with lots of health problems they couldn't afford to treat and who probably should have gotten some assistance, but didn't qualify for it because of some technicality in the the applicable laws.

One thing I am seeing now is an increasing number of people who are receiving public assistance but do have jobs, or are in training for a job, who eventually "graduate" from the system when they've been employed for long enough to be making a decent wage with benefits provided by their new employer. That's very encouraging IMO.

[mapuc]

Thank you for your answer

That's just like here, some abuse it.

However here the medical in all way is free, paid through our taxes

I pay 38 % of my earnings(you pay 38 % when you are either unemployed, or sick. When you have a job you pay 36 % + 8 % (That's some kind of labor market contributions so our youth can have an education for free)

As noticed you pay 36 +8 % when you have a job but that's only until you reach about 81000 $ then you have to pay extra 12 % or every dime, above these 81000 $

Forgot something. The problem as I see it, is not the problem how much you get from your government, the problem is that many stil lived like they stil had well paid job and that's one thing you can't do when you on public assistance

Markus

[tater]

38% is hardly free. So instead of say, $12,000 a year, I might pay around $100,000 for the same insurance? Sounds like a bad deal to me.

[Armistead]

My wife worked part time for Social Services in our county. For the most part to qualify you have to be in poverty. Course she see's a mix, those that don't seem to care and willing to live in poverty with govt programs and those that really need help. The worse cases are those that get ill and basically end up poor and sick.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

One thing I am seeing now is an increasing number of people who are receiving public assistance but do have jobs, or are in training for a job, who eventually "graduate" from the system when they've been employed for long enough to be making a decent wage with benefits provided by their new employer. That's very encouraging IMO.

Well I hope so, because I see employers still acting like it's 2008, yet the economy is getting better

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

Well I hope so, because I see employers still acting like it's 2008, yet the economy is getting better

Some of that might be contributed to the new healthcare system that might affect their bottom line.

[tater]

Job training programs fail to work. There was either a freakanomics podcast, or Planet Money (both on NPR) about it, and it was unambiguously a waste of money based on studies by different economists.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Some of that might be contributed to the new healthcare system that might affect their bottom line.

Recent studies show that 12-14 million people will lose their med insurance from employers due to Obamacare, much cheaper to pay the fine than incur new cost.

[GT182]

Well, being retired I can say we get no assistance. We're so broke we can't pay attention.

There are those on welfare that live far better than the rest of us. There was even a panhandler around here that disappeared when cold weather set in, and then he'd be back as soon as it got warmer. He died and they found out that he'd leave here and head to Florida for the winter.... and live in comfort in his $500,000 home on the beach and drive around in his new Mercedes.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by GT182

There are those on welfare that live far better than the rest of us. There was even a panhandler around here that disappeared when cold weather set in, and then he'd be back as soon as it got warmer. He died and they found out that he'd leave here and head to Florida for the winter.... and live in comfort in his $500,000 home on the beach and drive around in his new Mercedes.

Guy's not exactly a model citizen, but it doesn't sound like he's on welfare either.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Recent studies show that 12-14 million people will lose their med insurance from employers due to Obamacare, much cheaper to pay the fine than incur new cost.

At this point many business owners are still in the dark on this plan. I work in a office of six people. Our group plan went up 19% as a results of the healthcare bill. Business owners are not willing to hire on not knowing how exactly this new plan will affect his company. The promised transparency is/was never there in this administration.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

At this point many business owners are still in the dark on this plan. I work in a office of six people. Our group plan went up 19% as a results of the healthcare bill. Business owners are not willing to hire on not knowing how exactly this new plan will affect his company. The promised transparency is/was never there in this administration.

Supply and demand based on a competitive market usually balances things out. Course we know how this will work, cost will be passed on, jobs/wages will be cut. Many of us are in such markets that don't allow the passing of cost to customers, so I suspect employers will pass the added cost on to the employee, etc. For us, we'll be cutting bonuses and wage increases. Like you said, until it works out, employers will be wary, may take several years until supply and demand takes effect.

[NeonSamurai]

As someone who has actually studied the problem in the States, I can tell you this. A lot of families out their do their damnedest to stay within the medicaid bracket, and for good reason. You are totally boned if you step foot outside of it, as you will be even poorer and without any kind of medical coverage. The whole social insurance thing of the states to me really seems designed to trap people at a certain socioeconomic level I must say, as the gulf between it and being gainfully employed at a sustainable and covered level is gigantic, and extremely difficult to cross.

As someone who is currently working in the medical field (an adolescent mental health inpatient unit), I've also learned to utterly despise insurance companies.

It makes me miss Canada. Sure we may have to pay more taxes, but I don't have to worry about my (or future kids) medical stays bankrupting my family (Which would have happened given my medical history as a child, and that would have been with some very top notch insurance that my father would have had as a senior executive).