The FC Barcelona of Escorts?

VonApist · 03-13-12, 06:37 AM

I hate to whine , but this was a first. December 1940, my VIIB patrol grid is AM23. Incoming BdU report tells me a large convoy is some 200Km away heading slowly my way, course East. I have done the exercise many times (as I am pretty sure most of you). Given the size of the convoy and the time (late 1940) I felt pretty sure that the convoy wont be very lightly escorted. Since the weather was brilliant, I decide to position myself some 3 Km away from the expected path of the convoy, to avoid early detection, at an angle of 90degrees. My intention is to do long distance shots (2.5-3km) and try to evade as quietly as possible.
So I race towards my attack position, dive at 80m and turn my Uboat towards the direction of the convoy to provide the minimum available sonar target. Im standing there, 80m deep, silent running, checking on the hydrophones to assert the path. As expected they are on time and in pretty much the bearing/ path I was expecting them to follow.
So I sit tight, silent, waiting for the escorts to move forward before I go to periscope depth for the attack. And then the first escort is coming my way. I use no external camera so I was relying on the hydro. And after some minutes I get pinged. I stay still. Then hydrophones report that another escort is coming my way.
Now, the expression, "how the *** did they find me" creeps into my mind.
Its still 1940, late but 1940 for crying out loud. After a couple of minutes the escorts start their runs. At the first depth charge barrage I order depth 220m ,a depth that I reached uneventfully. And Im stuck there for 1.5 hour game time getting depth charged.
I survived, it was fine. And later I repositioned myself ahead of the convoy at night for a surface attack this time, which was successful (1 ammunition ship, 1 Large Merchant).
It still bugs me how I got detected in the first place-; BUT THAT'S THE REASON I LOVE THIS GAME. Its so freaking AWESOME!!!
PS I have checked, Bernard wasnt singing "Nessun Dorma" while on silent running. I had him tied and gagged up on the periscope tube from the beggining
Any ideas?

Osmium Steele · 03-13-12, 07:47 AM

How far away was the nearest escort when you were first pinged? I've been detected as far down as 120M when an escort ran directly overhead. I assume it was an expert crew, since I've also gone undetected in the same situation.

If you were running silent, low aspect, and outside the small 180 degree arc of the escort, I have no clue.

Captain Nemo · 03-13-12, 09:15 AM

If you get to close to an escort they will hear you no matter how silent you were. As an aside I would like to seek further clarification on escort behaviour. When you are undetected, are the escorts purely in listening mode and only switch on their ASDIC once they suspect a u-boat is in the vicinity? If this is the case, why?

Nemo

flag4 · 03-13-12, 09:40 AM

...maybe you were too deep. i beleive the sonar is like an inverted cone. closer to the surface you are not in that cone. maybe better to have stayed between 15/20 meters submerged or surfaced just out of visual range, then tracked them untill night and then....in you go?

VonApist · 03-13-12, 10:13 AM

I was in position for some hours before the arrival of the convoy, submerged and silent.

Usually the tactic worked fine for 1940-early 1941.
The escorts started coming towards me from a distance greater that 1 km according to the hydrophone

I chose a depth of 80m because of the very good weather, to be safer. If the weather was crappy I would definately go for the surface attack option.

It seems that I randomly put myself dead ahead of the escorts search cone... maybe.

But that what i like in the game, randomness. No tactic works forever.
On my second attempt from the surface , i was successful.

Bosje · 03-13-12, 10:29 AM

Is this modded and if so, which mod?

i clearly remember my pre-gwx days when silent running at 1/3 meant just over 100 rpm

you said weatherconditions too good for submarine operations, wouldnt be the first time they heard a uboat with passive sonar

or they were on alert because of an airattack/AI uboat, so they were in 'alert' mode.

good post, i too love the fact that you still get a nasty surprise every now and again. even more so because you got to live to tell the tale!

edit: in conditions like you described, i'd be at less than 50 rpm or even full stop and drifting

Bosje

VonApist · 03-13-12, 10:38 AM

Bosje
This was SHIII, GWX, SH3 Commander. realism 90%
I was silent, 0 knots drifting, that why I was surprised to be detected
But I enjoy a twist or 2 while playing

Empty B · 03-14-12, 12:39 PM

Time Compresion?
Sometimes I had this problem when using 64x.

Andrewsdad · 03-15-12, 09:05 AM

Salute, All !!!

I believe that any time an escort gets less than 500 meters from you he will detect you no matter what condition your boat is in or what the weather is.

It is just one of those glitches in the sim that we must deal with.

When those escorts go sailing by, you need to stay away !!!!!!!

AD

Missing Name · 03-15-12, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrewsdad

Salute, All !!!

I believe that any time an escort gets less than 500 meters from you he will detect you no matter what condition your boat is in or what the weather is.

It is just one of those glitches in the sim that we must deal with.
AD

No, I've had escorts pass very, very close by and not detect me. Once during heavy weather, a destroyer nearly rammed me and went on its merry way. Other times, the lead escort has passed directly overhead (by my choice or not) and didn't notice.

Remember, a destroyer will not ping if he is listening, and will not listen if he is pinging.

Gargamel · 03-15-12, 09:21 AM

I've also had them pass directly overhead at high speed and not see me.

Brag · 03-15-12, 08:19 PM

In GWX they'l come stairght for you three out of four times. Very annoying. Using time compression worsens things. Going to silent running as you dive does help a bit.

Oddly, the first wabo attack is the deadliest. After that one the escorts seem to lose fficiency.

I keep th rudder five degrees port or starboard. This eems to throw the AI off.

Good hunting

03-13-12, 06:37 AM	#1
VonApist Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greece Posts: 175 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	The FC Barcelona of Escorts? I hate to whine , but this was a first. December 1940, my VIIB patrol grid is AM23. Incoming BdU report tells me a large convoy is some 200Km away heading slowly my way, course East. I have done the exercise many times (as I am pretty sure most of you). Given the size of the convoy and the time (late 1940) I felt pretty sure that the convoy wont be very lightly escorted. Since the weather was brilliant, I decide to position myself some 3 Km away from the expected path of the convoy, to avoid early detection, at an angle of 90degrees. My intention is to do long distance shots (2.5-3km) and try to evade as quietly as possible. So I race towards my attack position, dive at 80m and turn my Uboat towards the direction of the convoy to provide the minimum available sonar target. Im standing there, 80m deep, silent running, checking on the hydrophones to assert the path. As expected they are on time and in pretty much the bearing/ path I was expecting them to follow. So I sit tight, silent, waiting for the escorts to move forward before I go to periscope depth for the attack. And then the first escort is coming my way. I use no external camera so I was relying on the hydro. And after some minutes I get pinged. I stay still. Then hydrophones report that another escort is coming my way. Now, the expression, "how the *** did they find me" creeps into my mind. Its still 1940, late but 1940 for crying out loud. After a couple of minutes the escorts start their runs. At the first depth charge barrage I order depth 220m ,a depth that I reached uneventfully. And Im stuck there for 1.5 hour game time getting depth charged. I survived, it was fine. And later I repositioned myself ahead of the convoy at night for a surface attack this time, which was successful (1 ammunition ship, 1 Large Merchant). It still bugs me how I got detected in the first place-; BUT THAT'S THE REASON I LOVE THIS GAME. Its so freaking AWESOME!!! PS I have checked, Bernard wasnt singing "Nessun Dorma" while on silent running. I had him tied and gagged up on the periscope tube from the beggining Any ideas? __________________ "Submariners are a special brotherhood, either all come to the surface or no one does. On a submarine, the phrase all for one and one for all is not just a slogan, but reality.” -- VADM Rudolf Golosov Last edited by VonApist; 03-13-12 at 07:09 AM.

03-13-12, 07:47 AM	#2
Osmium Steele Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Upper midwest USA Posts: 1,101 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	How far away was the nearest escort when you were first pinged? I've been detected as far down as 120M when an escort ran directly overhead. I assume it was an expert crew, since I've also gone undetected in the same situation. If you were running silent, low aspect, and outside the small 180 degree arc of the escort, I have no clue. __________________ In the month of July of the year 1348, between the feasts of St. Benedict and of St. Swithin, a strange thing came upon England... My U297 build thread

03-13-12, 09:15 AM	#3
Captain Nemo Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 1,144 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	If you get to close to an escort they will hear you no matter how silent you were. As an aside I would like to seek further clarification on escort behaviour. When you are undetected, are the escorts purely in listening mode and only switch on their ASDIC once they suspect a u-boat is in the vicinity? If this is the case, why? Nemo __________________ "I'm afraid there is no disguising the fact that King's obsession with the Pacific and the Battle of Washington cost us dear in the Battle of the Atlantic". Sir John Slessor GCB, DSO, MC, DL AOC-in-C Coastal Command RAF ___________________________________________

03-13-12, 09:40 AM	#4
flag4 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: as far away as possible Posts: 1,625 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 0	...maybe you were too deep. i beleive the sonar is like an inverted cone. closer to the surface you are not in that cone. maybe better to have stayed between 15/20 meters submerged or surfaced just out of visual range, then tracked them untill night and then....in you go? __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ' We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different.' Kurt Vonnegut

03-13-12, 10:13 AM	#5
VonApist Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greece Posts: 175 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I was in position for some hours before the arrival of the convoy, submerged and silent. Usually the tactic worked fine for 1940-early 1941. The escorts started coming towards me from a distance greater that 1 km according to the hydrophone I chose a depth of 80m because of the very good weather, to be safer. If the weather was crappy I would definately go for the surface attack option. It seems that I randomly put myself dead ahead of the escorts search cone... maybe. But that what i like in the game, randomness. No tactic works forever. On my second attempt from the surface , i was successful. __________________ "Submariners are a special brotherhood, either all come to the surface or no one does. On a submarine, the phrase all for one and one for all is not just a slogan, but reality.” -- VADM Rudolf Golosov

03-13-12, 10:29 AM	#6
Bosje Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 732 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	Is this modded and if so, which mod? i clearly remember my pre-gwx days when silent running at 1/3 meant just over 100 rpm you said weatherconditions too good for submarine operations, wouldnt be the first time they heard a uboat with passive sonar or they were on alert because of an airattack/AI uboat, so they were in 'alert' mode. good post, i too love the fact that you still get a nasty surprise every now and again. even more so because you got to live to tell the tale! edit: in conditions like you described, i'd be at less than 50 rpm or even full stop and drifting Bosje __________________ And when an 800-ton Uboat has you by the tits... you listen!

03-13-12, 10:38 AM	#7
VonApist Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greece Posts: 175 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Bosje This was SHIII, GWX, SH3 Commander. realism 90% I was silent, 0 knots drifting, that why I was surprised to be detected But I enjoy a twist or 2 while playing __________________ "Submariners are a special brotherhood, either all come to the surface or no one does. On a submarine, the phrase all for one and one for all is not just a slogan, but reality.” -- VADM Rudolf Golosov

03-14-12, 12:39 PM	#8
Empty B Seaman Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 39 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Time Compresion? Sometimes I had this problem when using 64x.

03-15-12, 09:05 AM	#9
Andrewsdad Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 130 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	Salute, All !!! I believe that any time an escort gets less than 500 meters from you he will detect you no matter what condition your boat is in or what the weather is. It is just one of those glitches in the sim that we must deal with. When those escorts go sailing by, you need to stay away !!!!!!! AD

03-15-12, 09:21 AM	#11
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	I've also had them pass directly overhead at high speed and not see me. __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

03-15-12, 08:19 PM	#12
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	In GWX they'l come stairght for you three out of four times. Very annoying. Using time compression worsens things. Going to silent running as you dive does help a bit. Oddly, the first wabo attack is the deadliest. After that one the escorts seem to lose fficiency. I keep th rudder five degrees port or starboard. This eems to throw the AI off. Good hunting __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/