Dead baby discovered in bin bag in Rainham

[the_tyrant]

The body of a newborn baby has been found in a bin liner in east London, the Metropolitan Police have revealed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13069780

[GoldenRivet]

i just dont have any words for this sort of thing

so i'll just do this...




...

[Feuer Frei!]

So, what do we argue here then?
The goody two shoes will argue that we shouldn't condone this sort of behaviour and that it is abhorrent BUT, that rather than making accountability number 1 we instead investigate further and find that the woman is mentally challenged and ie we should not throw the full law book at her and comiserate and understand why she did it.
On the other side of the fence, we argue that to hell with that, throw the full book at her because this is abhorrant behaviour and she deserves the most severe punishment given out to deeds like this.
Me? I fall into the second group.
I hope she is found or comes forward and issues a public statement as to why she did it.
I'm sure it'll be a bull**** story of how she has been hard done by and she didn't have any other option.
We will then place sympathy with the perp, not the victim.
Maybe.
I sincerely hope not.

[Krauter]

Makes me sad thinking of a child's life being snuffed out like that.

Gargamel what would you say if it as a teen mother, illegal immigrant, etc?

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

So, what do we argue here then?
The goody two shoes will argue that we shouldn't condone this sort of behaviour and that it is abhorrent BUT, that rather than making accountability number 1 we instead investigate further and find that the woman is mentally challenged and ie we should not throw the full law book at her and comiserate and understand why she did it.
On the other side of the fence, we argue that to hell with that, throw the full book at her because this is abhorrant behaviour and she deserves the most severe punishment given out to deeds like this.
Me? I fall into the second group.
I hope she is found or comes forward and issues a public statement as to why she did it.
I'm sure it'll be a bull**** story of how she has been hard done by and she didn't have any other option.
We will then place sympathy with the perp, not the victim.
Maybe.
I sincerely hope not.

So, say she's psychotic, and thinks god is telling her to abandon her baby. Still going to throw the book at her?

I know it feels good to be tough and uncompromising. It's a shame that reality can be more complex than your stance can allow.

[gimpy117]

however tragic this is, it's an example why we need to educate women about their options, Ie. contraception, adoption and abortion.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

abortion.

not to go down this road

but

I dont see the difference between vacuuming the scrambled remains of a fetus out into a medical waste can, and throwing a newborn infant into the garbage to die.

i dont make that distinction for some reason.

its very very closed minded to call it a "living organism that has rights" just because it came out of the vagina.

i mean... is it not to be considered a living organism 3 seconds before it's head comes out of the vagina?

is it not to be considered a living organism 20 minutes before its head comes out of the vagina?

what about 1 day?

a week?

3 months?

the problem i have with abortion is that simple minded line in the sand that says "your not a human being that deserves rights unless your head has come out of the vagina."

there are Chinese women who have had Japanese soldiers use their samurai swords to cut the living fetuses out of their bulging bellies who i am sure would argue that it is indeed a living organism as it spewed out onto the ground and instantly tried to survive in the same way as any one of us might try to do while wet and naked on the surface of mars.

here my wife and i have been trying to have children for 5 years folks

and this woman is throwing her own child in the garbage. and a greater number of women still are just mutilating them en utero and having them vacuumed out as medical waste.

Humans can be a disgusting species.

its just shameful.

I cannot understand why anyone would chose abortion, or the trash bin over adoption. - in either case of abortion - or trash bin - you have denied a human being their right to a happy life.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

So, say she's psychotic, and thinks god is telling her to abandon her baby. Still going to throw the book at her?

I knew that arguement would come into it, God told me to do it, or that she didn't know what she was doing because she may be psychotic.
So God telling a person to throw a life into a bin would be something that makes sense?
Why would God do that? Let's leave religion out of it for once.

I know it feels good to be tough and uncompromising.

Feels good to be tough and uncompromising?
Interesting choice of words there.
I don't feel tough or uncompromising in the fact that i have morals.

It's a shame that reality can be more complex than your stance can allow.

Yes, reality seems to show that a life was thrown into a bin.
Sure is real that.
No other way to look at it, really. Nothing complex about it.

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

So God telling a person to throw a life into a bin would be something that makes sense?
Why would God do that? Let's leave religion out of it for once.

Genesis 22? Why would god ever tell someone to do that? Judges 11: 30-40? Why would god ever accept such a thing?

It's your religion, you deal with it. Anyway, what's relevant is the psychosis. Regardless of how implausible you think such a scenario, it could appear to be very real to a psychotic person.

Are you going to hold someone who has such a loose grip on reality fully accountable?

Yes, reality seems to show that a life was thrown into a bin.
Sure is real that.
No other way to look at it, really. Nothing complex about it.

Way to miss the point.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Goldenrivet

the problem i have with abortion is that simple minded line in the sand that says "your not a human being that deserves rights unless your head has come out of the vagina."

Do you lose your rights if you put your head into a vagina?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Do you lose your rights if you put your head into a vagina?

You might if you pick the wrong one.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

You might if you pick the wrong one.

Well played sir.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

not to go down this road

but

I dont see the difference between vacuuming the scrambled remains of a fetus out into a medical waste can, and throwing a newborn infant into the garbage to die.

i dont make that distinction for some reason.

thats because you are thinking about late term abortions, which are rightly illegal unless absolutely necessary. I'm talking about early term, before the fetus is aware. I can go on an on...but I'm under the firm belief that a woman womb is her own business and not something we can legislate.

But I think we can agree this woman needed to be educated in the alternatives before taking such horrible measures. rather than just jumping right to abortion and its oh so long internet argument.

[Dan D]

Infanticide , hard to believe that this phenomenon still exists even today in present societies despite welfare, baby hatches, etc.
You read about it every couple of months in the newspapers.

Does not throw a good light on us. Pregnant women should not get into a situation where it seems to be an option for some of them to give birth anonymously and to abandon the child afterwards. We ought to be able to offer alternatives.

[Jimbuna]

Back OT....how so very tragic