Neutrals are supposed to be NEUTRAL

Missing Name · 12-14-10, 03:54 PM

It was November 1941. I was patrolling the North Atlantic when I came across a nice, slow whale factory ship. Full blackout, and a rather nasty looking deck gun mounted aft. So I sank her. Went to external cam.

American flag.

Did a little research and found out that American ships did indeed start arming themselves in early November.

And also, a few months earlier, I came across an American microconvoy. There was a lit large tanker followed by a tramp steamer. The tanker didn't care, but the tramp steamer appeared to be taking evasive maneuvers. I came quite close, so there's no way the big guy didn't see me.

Has anyone else come across stuff like this?

NightCrawler · 12-14-10, 05:24 PM

As you aware, American join the war in 1942, so yes when you torp a yank in 1941 considered neutral...

you second statement, it happens me close to Canarian Island..
A tanker and a small merchant together, the small merchant protect the tanker.. i took them both out with deckgun at range 2500, merchant first because he had the deckgun... and always keep the best at last, the tanker, nice fire-works :P

Gerald · 12-14-10, 07:32 PM

You meant, of course, that they entered the war in 1941, December 11/12

Gargamel · 12-14-10, 09:41 PM

Standing orders from BDU were that any unlit or armed ship in the blockade zone may be sunk without confirmation of flag.

I edited my renown so I wouldnt get penalized (nor rewarded) for hitting a neutral.

Kip Chiakopf · 12-14-10, 10:01 PM

Just happened to me. I found two ships, a small cargo ship and a small tanker, traveling at night without lights. I put one on the bottom, only to discover it was neutral. I got dinged on Renown pointss.

Gerald · 12-14-10, 10:08 PM

Yes at night or in poor visibility conditions, could easily something like that happen,

Capt. Morgan · 12-14-10, 11:15 PM

Any truly Neutral ship steaming through a war zone with it's flag darkened deserves what it gets. Masquerading as a belligerent is not a wise decision.

Sorry for her crew. If I was commanding the sub that sank her, I think I'd have a look through the life boats for her captain - just to make sure he went down with his ship.

mookiemookie · 12-15-10, 02:34 AM

While standing orders were to sink neutrals acting as belligerents (sailing blacked out in war zones) you still would have been called on the carpet and reprimanded for sinking an American ship. At this point, Hitler was trying to avoid confrontation with the U.S. at all costs. Of course the U.S. took advantage of that fact, but still.

Tessa · 12-15-10, 05:06 AM

Best solution to the problem I've seen is to edit the basic.cfg so that sinking neutrals does nothing, ie. neutral=0 During Drumbeat several Brazilian ships were sunk in American waters by u-boats - they were all blackened out. It was an enforced policy that ships travelling in certain areas were required to be blacked out, regardless of their position (Axis, Allied or Neutral) in the war.

There can be neutral ships intermixed with large convoys, to take the time to inspect the ships for their flags was unreasonable if there were travelling in one of the Allied convoy lanes. Sinking a neutral ship was never a good idea and not something any ever did deliberately, and most captain only did it once; but they didn't get court marshalled over it.

Kapt Z · 12-15-10, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

While standing orders were to sink neutrals acting as belligerents (sailing blacked out in war zones) you still would have been called on the carpet and reprimanded for sinking an American ship. At this point, Hitler was trying to avoid confrontation with the U.S. at all costs. Of course the U.S. took advantage of that fact, but still.

Agreed.

IIRC the Germans were almost as suprised as us(USA) when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

papa_smurf · 12-15-10, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Yes at night or in poor visibility conditions, could easily something like that happen,

That has happened to me on many an occasion. Just because a ship is unlit at night, does not mean its neutral

Missing Name · 12-15-10, 12:32 PM

Whoops, I did mean 1941. Now it's 1942, so all dark ships are fair game.

That big 5-inch gun looked threatening. So of course I sank her! And now I'm editing my ini to say neutrals are neutral points. There.

And attacking or sinking a hospital ship is one of the biggest jerk moves you can pull off, in my books. But they sound so much like ocean liners on the froo froo...

papa_smurf · 12-16-10, 08:53 AM

[QUOTE]And attacking or sinking a hospital ship is one of the biggest jerk moves you can pull off, in my books.[/QUOTE

If you sink one (even mistakenly), its career over

.

VONHARRIS · 12-17-10, 12:51 AM

I have no intension to attack a hospital ship , but Neutrals are supposed to be Neutrals. Calling in air support is a direct violation of the neutrality rules , but this is not scripted in the game.

Perhaps a modder can make such a mod....

krashkart · 12-17-10, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa_smurf

That has happened to me on many an occasion. Just because a ship is unlit at night, does not mean its neutral

I joined those ranks awhile back.

It's annoying sometimes when I sink an unlit neutral. I try not to fire without giving a proper visual inspection, but every so often I trick myself into thinking that a quick shot will result in sending the enemy to the bottom.

The worst is when the soup closes in and I can't see anything beyond a couple hundred meters. Sank a few neutrals that way, too. Blasted weather.

12-14-10, 03:54 PM	#1
Missing Name Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westun New Yahk Posts: 748 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	Neutrals are supposed to be NEUTRAL It was November 1941. I was patrolling the North Atlantic when I came across a nice, slow whale factory ship. Full blackout, and a rather nasty looking deck gun mounted aft. So I sank her. Went to external cam. American flag. Did a little research and found out that American ships did indeed start arming themselves in early November. And also, a few months earlier, I came across an American microconvoy. There was a lit large tanker followed by a tramp steamer. The tanker didn't care, but the tramp steamer appeared to be taking evasive maneuvers. I came quite close, so there's no way the big guy didn't see me. Has anyone else come across stuff like this? __________________ Largest target sunk with deck gun: Japanese auxiliary cruiser, 15000 tons Largest engaged: HMS Nelson. Results inconclusive. Read Brag's stuff

12-14-10, 05:24 PM	#2
NightCrawler Engineer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: FLA USA Posts: 217 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Neutral = Neutral As you aware, American join the war in 1942, so yes when you torp a yank in 1941 considered neutral... you second statement, it happens me close to Canarian Island.. A tanker and a small merchant together, the small merchant protect the tanker.. i took them both out with deckgun at range 2500, merchant first because he had the deckgun... and always keep the best at last, the tanker, nice fire-works :P

12-14-10, 07:32 PM	#3
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	You meant, of course, that they entered the war in 1941, December 11/12 __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

12-14-10, 09:41 PM	#4
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	Standing orders from BDU were that any unlit or armed ship in the blockade zone may be sunk without confirmation of flag. I edited my renown so I wouldnt get penalized (nor rewarded) for hitting a neutral. __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

12-14-10, 10:08 PM	#6
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Yes at night or in poor visibility conditions, could easily something like that happen, __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

12-14-10, 10:01 PM	#5
Kip Chiakopf Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 130 Downloads: 259 Uploads: 0	Just happened to me. I found two ships, a small cargo ship and a small tanker, traveling at night without lights. I put one on the bottom, only to discover it was neutral. I got dinged on Renown pointss.

12-14-10, 11:15 PM	#7
Capt. Morgan Commander Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Just east of the west coast. Posts: 463 Downloads: 423 Uploads: 0	Any truly Neutral ship steaming through a war zone with it's flag darkened deserves what it gets. Masquerading as a belligerent is not a wise decision. Sorry for her crew. If I was commanding the sub that sank her, I think I'd have a look through the life boats for her captain - just to make sure he went down with his ship. __________________ There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet. -- Admiral William Halsey

12-15-10, 02:34 AM	#8
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	While standing orders were to sink neutrals acting as belligerents (sailing blacked out in war zones) you still would have been called on the carpet and reprimanded for sinking an American ship. At this point, Hitler was trying to avoid confrontation with the U.S. at all costs. Of course the U.S. took advantage of that fact, but still. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

12-15-10, 05:06 AM	#9
Tessa Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: CG 96 Posts: 861 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Best solution to the problem I've seen is to edit the basic.cfg so that sinking neutrals does nothing, ie. neutral=0 During Drumbeat several Brazilian ships were sunk in American waters by u-boats - they were all blackened out. It was an enforced policy that ships travelling in certain areas were required to be blacked out, regardless of their position (Axis, Allied or Neutral) in the war. There can be neutral ships intermixed with large convoys, to take the time to inspect the ships for their flags was unreasonable if there were travelling in one of the Allied convoy lanes. Sinking a neutral ship was never a good idea and not something any ever did deliberately, and most captain only did it once; but they didn't get court marshalled over it.

12-15-10, 12:32 PM	#12
Missing Name Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westun New Yahk Posts: 748 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	Whoops, I did mean 1941. Now it's 1942, so all dark ships are fair game. That big 5-inch gun looked threatening. So of course I sank her! And now I'm editing my ini to say neutrals are neutral points. There. And attacking or sinking a hospital ship is one of the biggest jerk moves you can pull off, in my books. But they sound so much like ocean liners on the froo froo... __________________ Largest target sunk with deck gun: Japanese auxiliary cruiser, 15000 tons Largest engaged: HMS Nelson. Results inconclusive. Read Brag's stuff

12-16-10, 08:53 AM	#13
papa_smurf Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2,851 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	[QUOTE]And attacking or sinking a hospital ship is one of the biggest jerk moves you can pull off, in my books.[/QUOTE If you sink one (even mistakenly), its career over. __________________

12-17-10, 12:51 AM	#14
VONHARRIS Konteradmiral Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Greece Posts: 1,992 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	I have no intension to attack a hospital ship , but Neutrals are supposed to be Neutrals. Calling in air support is a direct violation of the neutrality rules , but this is not scripted in the game. Perhaps a modder can make such a mod....