This game is tough

I'm goin' down · 09-03-10, 01:16 AM

How tough can this game be? Damn tough. Two scenarios.

First scenario: USS Nautilus-single mission at Battle of Midway (in a Gato.)
Mods, etc.: TMO 2.0, map contacts off, RSRDC, 3D TDC mod,
SCAF, Max Optics IV for TMO; 90 percent realism (external camera working).

I gave up. It took too long to plot the course of the enemy fleet and await their arrival in the attack zone. In the interim, four TMO 2.0 destroyers forced me to go deep and when i surfaced the the Jap ships I had spotted had passed my boat on the way to Midway or were a LONG ways away. Undaunted, I opted for a second attempt, so I replayed the mission....

Second scenario. Same as first, except 3D TDC mod disabled and the Easy Aob for TMO, and EZPlot 1.0 enabled. I ducked the destroyers. (Smirk!) Lined up 4 torpedo shots on a Hiryu fleet carrier traveling at 23.75 kts on a course of 145 degrees. Confirmed torpedoes' angles on the Attack Map. Fired at 1,500 yds. Four shots fired with a spread. One premature explosion, two duds bounced off the carrier, and one torpedo ran under the target's keel. (Arghhh!) Two shots at a following cruiser on an adjacent course missed aft of that target at 2,500 yds. (Grrr!)

3rd attempt. I never got a shot off because I was too far off the targets' courses due to the fact that I have to dive to 300 feet to avoid destroyers. When I returned to periscope depth, U.S. planes apparently sunk the targets I planned to attack.

Quit the game.

Rockin Robbins · 09-03-10, 03:55 AM

That's the problem with the scripted missions that come with the game. It is as if you've been in a drug-induced coma and just regained consciousness after you are too close to formulate an attack plan and too late for any maneuvering to establish a good attack position.

I find most of the missions to be completely valueless because of that. They seem just afterthoughts of the developers, not tested for playability at all. I wouldn't take any failure to be successful with them as a personal failure. The missions are at fault.

Armistead · 09-03-10, 06:38 AM

I agree, I never play the single missions unless some of the ones made by better players.

Zoomer96 · 09-03-10, 09:02 AM

Seems to me you had about the same luck as the REAL Nautilus back in 1942! Unless you can maneuver right close to the firing point, the heavies usually speed right on by. The big thing back in 1942 was the destroyer that stayed back to drive Nautilus deep led the dive bombers to the Carriers. When it left Nautilus, he made a beeline back to the fleet. Commander Wade McClusky spotted it and put two and two together. Read "The Big E" by Edward Stafford!

tater · 09-03-10, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

That's the problem with the scripted missions that come with the game. It is as if you've been in a drug-induced coma and just regained consciousness after you are too close to formulate an attack plan and too late for any maneuvering to establish a good attack position.

I find most of the missions to be completely valueless because of that. They seem just afterthoughts of the developers, not tested for playability at all. I wouldn't take any failure to be successful with them as a personal failure. The missions are at fault.

Except he said he was playing RSRDC. All the stock scripted stuff is gone. The RSRDC mission simply puts your sub in the area, and lets the RSRDC Midway forces come as usual.

I'm goin' down · 09-03-10, 10:53 AM

Very interesting zoomer!

Captain tater, you may be correct. However, the Nautilus mission in RSRDC appears to be very, very similar to the midway mission in the stock game. I do not know if they are identical, but I suspect they may be. But you made an interesting point. Incidentally, I located Yamamoto's fleet that attacked Pearl in the RSRDC files, created a single mission and put my boat where i thought the launch point would be. The fleet showed up. However, it was too dark to see the targets, and it was unable to change history!

Gibus · 09-06-10, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Except he said he was playing RSRDC. All the stock scripted stuff is gone.

Hello,
About RSRD, will you allow me a question?
Take, for example the Battle of the Philippines in Palawan Passage.
My question is: since the order of battle has been rewritten, why not have gone further in historical reality?
Let me explain:
In RSRD, there were 11 destroyers Asashio the passage of Palawan. In reality, they were 15.
Why is there only Asashio while there were also Kagero and Yugumo and that these units are available in RSRD, I think?
In RSRD, Kurita's fleet is organized into two columns spaced 1,000 meters. In reality, Kurita had training at night on two columns spaced 4,000 meters. Between the two columns (left column: Atago, Takao, Chokai, Nagato, right column: Myoko, Haguro, Maya, Yamato, Musashi) 3 destroyers. The other destroyers guarding the flanks, was in no protection in front.
Kongo and two cruisers escorted by destroyers after 6000 meters back.
Use the "Random Group system" does not respect the historical reality that seems to be the vocation of RSRD.

I hope my bad English does not misrepresented my thinking.

Gibus

tater · 09-06-10, 09:37 AM

Random groups in SH4 have a max spacing of 2000m, and spacings are all even in both directions.

In addition, the ships maintain spacings regardless of terrain, so if they go into any tight spaces near islands, larger spacing might present a problem (getting into or out of port, for example).

Regarding the variant DDs, I'm unsure. I'm actually the one who made them, perhaps they presented an issue at some point not worth tracking down (every new node ID added has the potential to CTD the game). That said, Kagero and Yugumo are only a little different than Asashio (AA guns and platforms, for Kagero the torpedo reload position).

It would be straightforward to add the proper DDs to specific groups. Find the references to Asashio, and replace however many with Yugumo or kagero (on the disabled mod, obviously).

I'm goin' down · 09-06-10, 10:23 PM

Perhaps Gibus' post re the inacurrate ships in RSRDC should be directed at the RSRDC threat where captain lurker can offer his advice or opinions? I was at the Battle of the Coral Sea and his two Jap carriers appeared below Guadalcanal on the date, time and course specified--accompanied by one or two dds.

Gibus · 09-07-10, 01:38 AM

Sorry.

WernherVonTrapp · 09-07-10, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gibus

Why is there only Asashio while there were also Kagero and Yugumo and that these units are available in RSRD, I think?

The IJN Kagero and Yugumo class destroyers were based on the design of the Asashio class, each with successive improvements upon the other. The Kagero would have, basically, looked quite similar to the Asashio, apart from these improvements. The Yugumo class were modified versions of the Kagero and as a result, would also look like the Asashio.

tater · 09-07-10, 08:14 AM

They do, one simple difference the players would see is the ability for different DDs with the same cfgdate to have slightly different armament (including DCs).

Not a huge change, but a little variability.

09-03-10, 01:16 AM	#1
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	This game is tough How tough can this game be? Damn tough. Two scenarios. First scenario: USS Nautilus-single mission at Battle of Midway (in a Gato.) Mods, etc.: TMO 2.0, map contacts off, RSRDC, 3D TDC mod, SCAF, Max Optics IV for TMO; 90 percent realism (external camera working). I gave up. It took too long to plot the course of the enemy fleet and await their arrival in the attack zone. In the interim, four TMO 2.0 destroyers forced me to go deep and when i surfaced the the Jap ships I had spotted had passed my boat on the way to Midway or were a LONG ways away. Undaunted, I opted for a second attempt, so I replayed the mission.... Second scenario. Same as first, except 3D TDC mod disabled and the Easy Aob for TMO, and EZPlot 1.0 enabled. I ducked the destroyers. (Smirk!) Lined up 4 torpedo shots on a Hiryu fleet carrier traveling at 23.75 kts on a course of 145 degrees. Confirmed torpedoes' angles on the Attack Map. Fired at 1,500 yds. Four shots fired with a spread. One premature explosion, two duds bounced off the carrier, and one torpedo ran under the target's keel. (Arghhh!) Two shots at a following cruiser on an adjacent course missed aft of that target at 2,500 yds. (Grrr!) 3rd attempt. I never got a shot off because I was too far off the targets' courses due to the fact that I have to dive to 300 feet to avoid destroyers. When I returned to periscope depth, U.S. planes apparently sunk the targets I planned to attack. Quit the game. Last edited by I'm goin' down; 09-03-10 at 02:33 AM.

09-03-10, 03:55 AM	#2
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	That's the problem with the scripted missions that come with the game. It is as if you've been in a drug-induced coma and just regained consciousness after you are too close to formulate an attack plan and too late for any maneuvering to establish a good attack position. I find most of the missions to be completely valueless because of that. They seem just afterthoughts of the developers, not tested for playability at all. I wouldn't take any failure to be successful with them as a personal failure. The missions are at fault. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

09-03-10, 10:53 AM	#6
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	zoomer and tater Very interesting zoomer! Captain tater, you may be correct. However, the Nautilus mission in RSRDC appears to be very, very similar to the midway mission in the stock game. I do not know if they are identical, but I suspect they may be. But you made an interesting point. Incidentally, I located Yamamoto's fleet that attacked Pearl in the RSRDC files, created a single mission and put my boat where i thought the launch point would be. The fleet showed up. However, it was too dark to see the targets, and it was unable to change history!

09-06-10, 10:23 PM	#9
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	RSRDC Perhaps Gibus' post re the inacurrate ships in RSRDC should be directed at the RSRDC threat where captain lurker can offer his advice or opinions? I was at the Battle of the Coral Sea and his two Jap carriers appeared below Guadalcanal on the date, time and course specified--accompanied by one or two dds.

09-07-10, 01:38 AM	#10
Gibus Ensign Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: France Posts: 223 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	Sorry. __________________ "Pacific is a big ocean. You don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to." Dick O'Kane

09-03-10, 06:38 AM	#3
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I agree, I never play the single missions unless some of the ones made by better players.

09-03-10, 09:02 AM	#4
Zoomer96 Helmsman Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 106 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 0	Seems to me you had about the same luck as the REAL Nautilus back in 1942! Unless you can maneuver right close to the firing point, the heavies usually speed right on by. The big thing back in 1942 was the destroyer that stayed back to drive Nautilus deep led the dive bombers to the Carriers. When it left Nautilus, he made a beeline back to the fleet. Commander Wade McClusky spotted it and put two and two together. Read "The Big E" by Edward Stafford!

09-06-10, 09:37 AM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Random groups in SH4 have a max spacing of 2000m, and spacings are all even in both directions. In addition, the ships maintain spacings regardless of terrain, so if they go into any tight spaces near islands, larger spacing might present a problem (getting into or out of port, for example). Regarding the variant DDs, I'm unsure. I'm actually the one who made them, perhaps they presented an issue at some point not worth tracking down (every new node ID added has the potential to CTD the game). That said, Kagero and Yugumo are only a little different than Asashio (AA guns and platforms, for Kagero the torpedo reload position). It would be straightforward to add the proper DDs to specific groups. Find the references to Asashio, and replace however many with Yugumo or kagero (on the disabled mod, obviously).

09-07-10, 08:14 AM	#12
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	They do, one simple difference the players would see is the ability for different DDs with the same cfgdate to have slightly different armament (including DCs). Not a huge change, but a little variability.