Switching Exploder Types

[sharkbit]

In-game, switching from "contact" to "magnetic/contact" exploder is just a simple click of a switch.

From what I've read, in real life, it wasn't quite as easy. It sounds like the switch has to be done with the torpedo out of the tube and some disassembly required. Not something that is done in the heat of battle just prior to shooting torpedoes.

Does anybody have any knowledge of exactly how the switch was made?

With my current career in SH4(and I'll do the same in SH3 as well), I've made the decision to follow orders and use the magnetic exploder activated until ordered otherwise. Of course I also bend the orders a little by setting the depth to where the contact part of the pistol will explode. (Sounds like many skippers in real life did this as well and falsified patrol reports to cover it up when they began to not trust the magnetic exploders. "The Bravest Man: Richard O'Kane and the Amazing submarine Adventures of the USS Tang" William Tuhoy is where I've read this.)
Now if this means prematures in rough seas, so be it(been lucky so far )

I'm just curious on how the switch was made and how historically accurate switching back and forth depending on sea state and target really is.
Thanks.

[Sailor Steve]

As I understand it the Germans had to switch exploders while the torpedo was outside the tube.

American torpedoes had both pistols installed. There was no switching. It was magnetic and contact all the time, which caused no end of confusion when both were having problems. Some enterprising captains figured out what they weren't being told and had their torpedo chiefs remove the magnetic exploders.

After Admiral Lockwood started running tests the torpedoes all had the magnetic exploders removed at the arsenals, so there was no magnetic until the problem was fixed. After that the torpedoes worked just fine.

[Bubblehead1980]

From everything I read it was not as simple as an on off switch like in the game but they did have both a magnetic and contact detonator.The contact was intended as a backup but the magnetic keel shot was the desired shot at begin of war, because you could sink a large ship with one torpedo by busting the keel instead of hitting the side with 2-3 fish.The problem was many skippers had not idea their torpedos were exploding early because many had their scopes down as torpedos neared target since they were trained that way and only heard explosions, some counted these as hits. After a few months at war reports began to flow in that torpedos were exploding early, running too deep and were even possible duds when they impacted the side, but brass were not listening, skippers were blamed and some lost their commands.

Some Skippers chose to defy orders and as soon as en route to target, had the "magnetic features" of Mark 14 torpedos deactivated, this took care of prematures but torpedos were still running deep and duds were occuring and confirmed by some Skippers but the brass were still not listening.The problem dragged on throughout 1942 and into 43.After Admiral English died in a plane crash in early 43 and Admiral Lockwood took over, Lockwood began to listen to the complaints and finally ordered around June of 43 that the magnetic detonators be removed.Admiral Christie in Australia however did not allow this, either because he truly believed the top secret detonator he helped create was getting a bum rap or was just saving face and being stubborn, subs under his command based in Fremantle were not allowed to deactivate the magnetic detonators until begin of January 1944, but more skippers did so after hearing of the test results at Pearl Harbor and reactivated them when returning from patrol if any fish were left.Subs who began a patrol out of Pearl Harbor would have to reactivate magnetic features if they crossed into Christie's command and esp if they ended patrol Down Under.

With the depth keeping problem mostly solved and most of the magnetics deactivated, a new problem became apparent, the contact exploders were flawed also.The fish were hitting targets dead center and just bouncing off the side or pentrating without exploding, they were 'duds'.Lockwood ordered more tests and after some test firing on cliffs in Hawaii and some braved EOD men retrieved the unexploded torpedos, the figured out the firing pin was deformed on impact and thus the torpedo did not explode.They also found torpedos that hit at small angles were less likely to dud but those fired at large angles such as the desired 90 degree shot, were duds most of the time.The temporary fix was to tell all subs on patrol and departing for patrol to fire "glancing blows" New firing pins were constructed and put into torpedos and by September/October of 43, the main torpedo problems were solved although occasional problems occured throughout the war.

Now, told all that just as an FYI in case you didnt know.So not switching the detonators was not as easy as flipping a switch, they had to be pulled out, the nose taken off and fooled with and since dealing with explosives here, was prob tedious work that took long periods of time.Not historically accurate to just switch over.Personally I like to follow history as much as possible so just deal with the fauly torpedos in begin of war, its part of the challenge.

Also, in RL I do not believe sea state had much to do with the prematures.The magnetic detonator was considered so secret it was never tested way out in the Pacific where it was used, it was tested in an enclosed bay in the US.The earth's magnetic field is different where the detonator was actually used and this affected it.Also the torpedos often were too sensitive and detected a ships magnetic signature too early, which lead to close but premature explosions, that some skippers thought were hits but all they did were throw water geysers on the decks of their targets.

you seem to be striving for accuracy as well so yes leaving them on magnetic until June of 43 if playing out of Pearl is accurate.Later if out of Fremantle.Believe Brisbane boats went way of Pearl boats.Setting torpedos to run shallow as possible so contact part hits IS accurate, many begin to do this to counter the deep running problem.The thing about SH is you can fire torpedos set for 3 feet when seas are heavy and they dont broach or anything, in RL they did this.Call me anal but if heavy seas I set them 10-12 feet deep as if they would broach, just for the challenge.

Are you running TMO or stock SH?

In TMO prematures are a problem until April of 43 and then duds are until July or so, little off on dates but its all good.I believe the depth problem is fixed in late 42.Not sure about stock, havent played stock in sooo long.

[Admiral8Q]

Thanks for those posts. This is what a magnetic exploder was meant to do with one torpedo. Break the spine of a ship by exploding under the keel instead of hitting the hull. Like in modern days the Mark 48.

[Nisgeis]

As Bubblehead states, when the magnetic exploder was removed, the torpedoes got worse, because when the contact exploder failed, it was the much maligned magnetic exploder that was causing the torpedoes to explode.

When the torpedo broaches it can go off course, not sure why, perhaps as the fins come out of the water it can roll and throw the gyro out or something, but simply setting the torpedoes to as shllow as you can in game is not something the real guys could really do.

[sharkbit]

Thanks for the detailed info Sailor Steve and Bubblehead.
I'm fairly familiar with the torpedo problem that both the US and Germans encountered in the war, but your accounting of it was a very good summary. I still learn new tid bits here and there as I continue to read.
I feel justified to continue playing the way I am and can add another "personal option" to my list. When I return to SH3, I will do the same thing.

Are you running TMO or stock SH?

I'm playing RFB 2.0. I've had my share of duds, but no preemies as of yet. I generally set the depths to 8 feet. I've even got the occasional accidental keel shot when the torpedo ran deep and the mag exploder detonated(I like external cam too much). I've also seen the wake pass harmlessly through the MOT and continue on past the ship.
I'm currently playing out of Freemantle in June '42. I guess I'll have to continue to set my depths shallow and tweek the patrol reports a little.
Oh yeoman....

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

As Bubblehead states, when the magnetic exploder was removed, the torpedoes got worse, because when the contact exploder failed, it was the much maligned magnetic exploder that was causing the torpedoes to explode.

When the torpedo broaches it can go off course, not sure why, perhaps as the fins come out of the water it can roll and throw the gyro out or something, but simply setting the torpedoes to as shllow as you can in game is not something the real guys could really do.

You sure? I remember reading in several books including O Kane's book WAHOO that they set torpedos as shallow as they would go when they were having issues with deep running torpedos.Depended on sea state of course.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

You sure? I remember reading in several books including O Kane's book WAHOO that they set torpedos as shallow as they would go when they were having issues with deep running torpedos.Depended on sea state of course.

Once you 'know' they definately run deep, yes, but if you don't know they run deep, then you wouldn't set them to run as shallow as you could, as the risk and danger of broaching would be high if they ran at the depth you set - which they didn't, but you wouldn't know that.

If you don't know they are faulty though, you'd have no reason to suspect they ran deep and no 'reason' in game to set them routinely to as shallow as possible as we all do from the start.

So, the real guys would set the torpedo at the 'correct' depth, making it run deep if you see what I mean. The point I'm trying to make is in the game you can just whack it to as shallow as you can and it won't cause any problems at all, even if the torpedoes do run at the depth they are set to, but RL they had to guard aginst broaching, which does nothing in game so is no danger.

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

If you don't know they are faulty though, you'd have no reason to suspect they ran deep and no 'reason' in game to set them routinely to as shallow as possible as we all do from the start.

Ahh, the joys of hindsight in the game.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

Ahh, the joys of hindsight in the game.

Really.

When I play miniatures games one of the hardest things to do is convince gamers to imagine it's really them in the cockpit, or on the battlefield, or commanding the ship. People want just play the game. It's hard to convince others to imagine your life is really on the line, and hard to describe the fact that they aren't supposed to know what's happening or why.

[Bubblehead1980]

What I was talking about was say after you have some deep running fish or ones you suspect(you kind of have know way of knowing if you play without external cam as i usually do.So you suspect you have deep runners as some subs did, you can then set them to run as shallow as possible, they will still run deep but shouldnt pass under the target.

I wish broaching was an issue you had to worry about and set the depth accordingly but its not, however one can say in heavy seas wont set them under 10-12 feet because they would broach.Guess its an honor system when it comes to this.I enjoy it, makes attacking a ship much more difficult and realistic.

[clayp]

This switch or the fast and slow switch have never worked in my game...

[G2B]

Captains; BuOrd has tested the torpedo and found no fault with them. This said, You must be using the torpedo's improperly. Any tampering with them could result in reassignment or Court Martial

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by G2B

Captains; BuOrd has tested the torpedo and found no fault with them. This said, You must be using the torpedo's improperly. Any tampering with them could result in reassignment or Court Martial

And quit making excuses for sloppy shooting!

[Admiral8Q]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Really.

When I play miniatures games one of the hardest things to do is convince gamers to imagine it's really them in the cockpit, or on the battlefield, or commanding the ship. People want just play the game. It's hard to convince others to imagine your life is really on the line, and hard to describe the fact that they aren't supposed to know what's happening or why.

Very interesting Steve. That would be like real role playing days that me and my pals did over a decade ago. I would do that, but I've always liked hitting the waterline whether it's by torp or by gun.