Map with mined areas!

urfisch · 01-28-10, 10:26 AM

i wonder if there is a map with mined areas off the british coast. in my last career i tried to wait for ships about 30(!) miles away from a british harbour on the east coast, when sailing into a minefield - dead.

i loaded the savegame and was sailing carefully mile for mile near to the shore. and then i saw them: MINES! hell a lot of them, under the water surface. this was ugly to see...these spikey, rusty balls...

i know, that there only was a small channel without mines, that lead to the harbours, but is there a map somewhere, to know exactly how the british mined their harbour entrances?

Wreford-Brown · 01-28-10, 10:49 AM

The best you can do is take a snapshot of the Mission Editor.

IRL both sides extensively mined each others waterways and channels. The safe routes around the UK were less than a km across and had to be constantly swept to keep them safe. Even then there were numerous losses, and the Luftwaffe used to regularly mine inside the 'safe' routes.

A u-boat captain had little to no idea where enemy and friendly mines were once he left base and he had to work on educated guesses. There was a programme on TV not long ago where three u-boat wrecks were discovered within a couple of km of each other - they all fell victim to a new UK minefield within a couple of days.

I have a ME snapshot that shows the whole of the UK with mined areas - it's enough to give me a general feel for where mines are, but not enough to do any detailed planning. Bear in mind that minefield density is important and that minefields were laid at varying depths - the UK minefields were designed to sink surface ships but there were still mines below keel level (15-20m) within the safe lanes that were designed to sink u-boats.

urfisch · 01-28-10, 11:26 AM

interesting! thanks!

Jimbuna · 01-28-10, 02:29 PM

The minefields scripted into GWX are pretty close to what the real deal was.

We were fortunate enough to be given copies of the Admiralty charts but unfortunately and to the best of my belief they have never been released for public viewing by the authorities.

Obltn Strand · 01-28-10, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

The minefields scripted into GWX are pretty close to what the real deal was.

We were fortunate enough to be given copies of the Admiralty charts but unfortunately and to the best of my belief they have never been released for public viewing by the authorities.

I just watched few DVD's of u-boat and battle of atlantic documents. Learning material

Area around Orkney and Shetland island very heavily mined and germans called it the rose garden. Dover strait got plenty of those awful and surprising things too. Entrance to Irirsh sea and areas south of Ireland vere mined too. This was before french atlantic ports. Idea was to prevent access from german u boats to atlantic.

It is very likely there are more areas too.

johan_d · 01-28-10, 04:47 PM

how did the uboat commanders noticed them if they had a high suspiscion of mines?

did they use sonar? or hydro ? or submerge a bit and look thru the periscope? how did they steer between them irl ?

Wreford-Brown · 01-28-10, 05:31 PM

U-boat commanders would avoid known mined areas and new enemy minefields would be reported when found,either by a ship hitting them or by sighting of mine laying by ship or aircraft. They generally had to apply the 'big sea, small mine' theory.

Sailor Steve · 01-28-10, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan_d

how did the uboat commanders noticed them if they had a high suspiscion of mines?

did they use sonar? or hydro ? or submerge a bit and look thru the periscope? how did they steer between them irl ?

Passive sonar (hydrophones) won't pick up anything that's not making noise. Active sonar might bounce off the mines in the proper fashion, but that many small objects would give a hard-to-determine return. The water is far too dark and murky to see mines (or falling depth charges) through a periscope lens.

The answer is they didn't have a clue, except as has been described above.

urfisch · 01-29-10, 07:26 AM

no wonder, many boats where sunk by mines...especially when leaving/returning harbours, or sailing in the entrance of the western areas to the british isle.

TarJak · 01-29-10, 08:37 AM

The approaches to the Irish Sea and English Channel were called Winston's doormat. Lots of mines and the welcome sign was definately not out.

bigboywooly · 01-29-10, 09:10 AM

In reality there were a lot more mines out there in RL than in game
Game cannot handle the amount and density there should be

floundericiousWA · 01-29-10, 01:37 PM

I've encountered that in both GWX and vanilla SH3 and that ***t is HAIR RAISING!

I was snooping the west entrance to Scapa in early 1940 the next patrol after pulling a duplication of Prien's feat...when I left in late '39, the run out that west channel was wide open (aside from frantically dodging the elco boats and trying to reach open water before the shore batteries could see me).

When I came back in early '40, I was snooping and happened to see a mine as the periscope was going up...

I went to external view and I was sitting in a pocket between several mines (it gave me the "how the hell did I not hit ANY of them!?!!?

" reaction) and ended up slowly backing out then hauling butt out to clear waters.

The only way to deal with it is to avoid known minefields and trust that you'll slide between any mines you come across...if you're wrong, that'll be all she wrote in short order!

floundericiousWA · 01-29-10, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

In reality there were a lot more mines out there in RL than in game
Game cannot handle the amount and density there should be

in RL you probably could have walked from england to france without getting your torso wet just walking on the mines

Red Heat · 01-29-10, 03:33 PM

Terrible weapon...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine

Jimbuna · 01-29-10, 04:53 PM

The real intelligent Kaleuns carried trained seagulls similar to the carrier pigeons used by the army.

01-28-10, 10:26 AM	#1
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	Map with mined areas! i wonder if there is a map with mined areas off the british coast. in my last career i tried to wait for ships about 30(!) miles away from a british harbour on the east coast, when sailing into a minefield - dead. i loaded the savegame and was sailing carefully mile for mile near to the shore. and then i saw them: MINES! hell a lot of them, under the water surface. this was ugly to see...these spikey, rusty balls... i know, that there only was a small channel without mines, that lead to the harbours, but is there a map somewhere, to know exactly how the british mined their harbour entrances? __________________

01-28-10, 10:49 AM	#2
Wreford-Brown Sea Lord Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In sight of Stonehenge Posts: 1,750 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 26	The best you can do is take a snapshot of the Mission Editor. IRL both sides extensively mined each others waterways and channels. The safe routes around the UK were less than a km across and had to be constantly swept to keep them safe. Even then there were numerous losses, and the Luftwaffe used to regularly mine inside the 'safe' routes. A u-boat captain had little to no idea where enemy and friendly mines were once he left base and he had to work on educated guesses. There was a programme on TV not long ago where three u-boat wrecks were discovered within a couple of km of each other - they all fell victim to a new UK minefield within a couple of days. I have a ME snapshot that shows the whole of the UK with mined areas - it's enough to give me a general feel for where mines are, but not enough to do any detailed planning. Bear in mind that minefield density is important and that minefields were laid at varying depths - the UK minefields were designed to sink surface ships but there were still mines below keel level (15-20m) within the safe lanes that were designed to sink u-boats. __________________ All my mods are available at MediaFire: SH3 Mods Other modders SH3 mods SH4 Mods ...you can't please all of the people all of the time...

01-28-10, 11:26 AM	#3
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	interesting! thanks! __________________

01-28-10, 02:29 PM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The minefields scripted into GWX are pretty close to what the real deal was. We were fortunate enough to be given copies of the Admiralty charts but unfortunately and to the best of my belief they have never been released for public viewing by the authorities. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-28-10, 05:31 PM	#7
Wreford-Brown Sea Lord Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In sight of Stonehenge Posts: 1,750 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 26	U-boat commanders would avoid known mined areas and new enemy minefields would be reported when found,either by a ship hitting them or by sighting of mine laying by ship or aircraft. They generally had to apply the 'big sea, small mine' theory. __________________ All my mods are available at MediaFire: SH3 Mods Other modders SH3 mods SH4 Mods ...you can't please all of the people all of the time...

01-28-10, 04:47 PM	#6
johan_d Samurai Navy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 556 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 1	how did the uboat commanders noticed them if they had a high suspiscion of mines? did they use sonar? or hydro ? or submerge a bit and look thru the periscope? how did they steer between them irl ?

01-29-10, 07:26 AM	#9
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	no wonder, many boats where sunk by mines...especially when leaving/returning harbours, or sailing in the entrance of the western areas to the british isle. __________________

01-29-10, 08:37 AM	#10
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	The approaches to the Irish Sea and English Channel were called Winston's doormat. Lots of mines and the welcome sign was definately not out.

01-29-10, 09:10 AM	#11
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	In reality there were a lot more mines out there in RL than in game Game cannot handle the amount and density there should be __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

01-29-10, 01:37 PM	#12
floundericiousWA Medic Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 164 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	I've encountered that in both GWX and vanilla SH3 and that **t is HAIR RAISING! I was snooping the west entrance to Scapa in early 1940 the next patrol after pulling a duplication of Prien's feat...when I left in late '39, the run out that west channel was wide open (aside from frantically dodging the elco boats and trying to reach open water before the shore batteries could see me). When I came back in early '40, I was snooping and happened to see a mine as the periscope was going up... I went to external view and I was sitting in a pocket between several mines (it gave me the "how the hell did I not hit ANY of them!?!!?" reaction) and ended up slowly backing out then hauling butt out to clear waters. The only way to deal with it is to avoid known minefields and trust that you'll slide between any mines you come across...if you're wrong, that'll be all she wrote in short order! __________________ C.O. - USS Tambor "Defending that which is sincerely good and perfectly divine;* Triumphant over death, and chance, and time..."

01-29-10, 03:33 PM	#14
Red Heat Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portugal Posts: 1,093 Downloads: 267 Uploads: 0	Terrible weapon... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine __________________ "There is three kinds of man: the living, the death, and those who are at Sea." Plato

01-29-10, 04:53 PM	#15
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The real intelligent Kaleuns carried trained seagulls similar to the carrier pigeons used by the army. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!