Obama punishes small country opposed to dictatorial ex-president

08-30-09, 03:37 PM

Obama punishes small country because its courts opposed dictatorial ex-president's return to power.

The Obama Administration has decided to block travel by the people of Honduras to the United States to punish their country for its Supreme Court's refusal to back the return to power of Honduras’s ex-president and would-be dictator, Manuel Zelaya, who is backed by left-wing Latin American dictators like Castro and Chavez.

Obama’s decision came in response to a recent ruling by the Honduras Supreme Court, ruling that the removal of the country’s ex-president and would-be dictator was a perfectly lawful “constitutional succession,”

http://www.examiner.com/x-7812-DC-SC...eturn-to-power

Platapus · 08-30-09, 03:40 PM

I wonder if this also stops Americans from traveling to Honduras?

Some great scuba diving in Honduras.

Stealth Hunter · 08-30-09, 03:47 PM

Lol. "Examiner.com".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Some great scuba diving in Honduras.

What about Jamaica?

Platapus · 08-30-09, 03:51 PM

Never dived in Jamaica. Would not mind checking that out.

Of course there are tons of great dive locations I have not been to..... yet.

Skybird · 08-30-09, 04:49 PM

I like that move by Honduras - if for no other reason than that Chavez runs around with foam on his mouth. By Chavez' order, the Venezuelean (?) secret service had spend incredible efforts and huge ammounts of money is undermining Honduras and supporting the left opposition - which nevertheless constantly lost sympathies in the population until only every third citizen supported Zelaya anymore. To simply kick Chavez' Mini-Me out when he tried to manipulate the constitution to his and the left's favour, simply was clever, correct and courageous. It also shows that their supreme court and the army still remember the lessons from their past of dictatorships, a lesson that says: do not allow presidents to stay that long in power that they can silently ursupate more power again than is good for the country.

My full support for kicking Zampano Zelaya - as long as the current interim president and the military keep their promise of free elections within the announced time table.

Obama would be well-advised to limit his attempts in demonstrating political correctness here.

08-30-09, 05:09 PM

When a country's legislative and judicial branch, along with the vast majority of the people want Mr. Manuel Zelaya to leave office. I'd say the US should support that decision.

08-30-09, 06:39 PM

Quote:

When a country's legislative and judicial branch, along with the vast majority of the people want Mr. Manuel Zelaya to leave office. I'd say the US should support that decision.

When some politicians judges and generals decide to throw the nations laws and constitution out the window and stage a coup against the elected government then the US should condemn that move just like it has done, as has every other country .
As for the "vast majority" of the people, thats bollox, the polls after the coup showed more people opposimng the move than supporting it, the replacement "government" has both a higher disapproval and lower approval rating than the previous one.

Quite a funny headline though isn't it...

Quote:

dictatorial ex-president

.....as I would have thought the dictatorial regime was the one that has used the military to overthrow the elected government, closed down the media , introduced detention without trial, abolished the need for search warrants and arrest warrants, there have even been many reports of the new "government" murdering people.

So I have to ask you Bravo, when every government says your take on this is wrong, all the international bodies are lining up to say you are wrong, most of the locals say you are wrong.....why do you think you are somehow right?

But you really have to laugh at this line.....

Quote:

a recent ruling by the Honduras Supreme Court

thats the supreme court now made up of judges that did the coup isn't it.
Its funny that they think Obamas descision came along because of that , I thought it would have come along with the decision of 192 countries.
Though maybe Obama was just pissed at the new Supreme Courts boss calling him a little know nothing negro plantation worker.

Stealth Hunter · 08-30-09, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

I'd say the US should support that decision.

And this is one of our biggest problems. We can't mind our own frickin' business. That and we feel the need to police the world when we can't even solve our own problems here at home first.

Skybird · 08-30-09, 07:22 PM

German:
http://www.faz.net/s/RubDDBDABB9457A...or~Eprint.html

Onkel Neal · 08-31-09, 10:58 AM

Quote:

To recap, the Honduran military in June executed a Supreme Court arrest warrant against Mr. Zelaya for trying to hold a referendum on whether he should be able to run for a second term. Article 239 of the Honduran constitution states that any president who tries for a second term automatically loses the privilege of his office. By insisting that Mr. Zelaya be returned to power, the U.S. is trying to force Honduras to violate its own constitution.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...711784150.html

SteamWake · 08-31-09, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32623489...ew_york_times/

Wrong link Neal?

Skybird · 08-31-09, 12:20 PM

Congress told him not to try that referendum, and that he was risking severe civil unrest as well as resistance from the institutions.

The Supreme court told him that he should not try it, and that he was accepting civil unrest for his own interests.

The military surely also let him know.

The catholic church was and is against him, both his left policies and his willingess to bring unrest over Honduras for the sake of his own powerinterests.

The head of Honduras'S Central bank, Ramón Villeda Bermúdez, has complained massively about the Wetsern and especially the Spanish policy of legitmising very one-sidedly both Venezuelas and Cuba's attempts to bring Central America under leftist control, attacking especially the spanish for their attempts to enforce their biased tolerance for left policies in the region onto other western nations as well.

Many intellectuals in Honduras have spoken out against what they call a misled and biased tolerance of wetsern nations for left regimes and policies in the region, and attacked the distorted perception of the West of the legal basis and the way Zelaya's ousting came to happen.

From Zelaya's election to the day before he was ousted, support for him had fallen from once 60+ % of the population to roughly just one third of the population. resistance to the events folowing his arrest still is said to find noi majopirty amongst the population, with his followers formiung a faction of just around 40% of the population. there is no protest majority in honduras. There is a minority yelling loudas if it were twice as big in size - that is what it is. and Wetsenr media fall for it, like they fell for the lies of Saakashvili in Georgia. Zelaya indeed reminds me of Saakashvili, just that he has so far not order the masskilling of civilians, and ordered no war crimes, like Saakashvili did. First dismissing advice, then asking for trouble he broke lose himself - and then pathetically waving his arms and calling "Me victim! Me victim!" Zelaya really is one of a kind.

The catholic church has begged him to stay away from Honduras and not try to return, for it would invite even more unrest and potential violence. Of course, as usual, he did not listen, and raised some pathetic publicity stunts. Armseliger Trottel. That big hat nevertheless did not shield him from too much sunlight, maybe.

Congress and Supreme Court acted on behalf of valid Hondurean laws and the constitution. The catholic church, which is a respected moral authority in Honduras even beyond the circle of it's catholic community amongst the population, confirms that,a nd also calls the West intentionally misperceiving the actions taken. The military did not stage a coup by itself, but followed calls by the supreme court. To call the events a coup is simply absurd and total rubbish. It is lightyears apart from the coups central America has seen twenty years ago.

Bolivias'S and Venezuela'S secret services are heavily engaged in destabalising the country and to push it into line with leftist regimes in the region.

There should be pills against such stupidity.

What drives Obama to fall for this Chavezian stunt, is beyond me.

If the interim government fails to deliver on it's promise to hold election within the promised timeframe - then you can start talking of a "coup". Not earlier. that'S why Venezuela, Bolvia and Cuba are working so hard to get a situation where elections cannot be held over public unrest too severe. these cojht ries are not interested in an independent Honduras. They want it to be in the lefts' line, or they want it falling. That simple.

Whatever this story is, before anything else it is the story of a failed coup of Bolivia, Venezuela and the centralamerican left to overthrow Honduras and make it a regime in line with the left project to bring all central America under it's control.

And even while we talk here, Bolivian and Venezuelean secret agents are active in Honduras and try to fuel the fire and destabilize the country even more. Nice company they make. Only left regimes like Cuba can love to have them as neighbours.

and stupid Westerners.

Onkel Neal · 08-31-09, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Wrong link Neal?

thanks, fixed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...711784150.html

Skybird · 08-31-09, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

thanks, fixed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...711784150.html

Strange experience for me to see me and a right-winged source agreeing that much on an issue!

A bit too much of unneeded rethoric in it, but nevertheless by content it is true.

Just complementing your earlier quote from the article:

Quote:

It is also asking Hondurans to risk the fate of Venezuela. They know how Venezuela's Hugo Chávez went from being democratically elected the first time, in 1998, to making himself dictator for life. He did it by destroying his country's institutional checks and balances. When Mr. Zelaya moved to do the same in Honduras, the nation cut him off at the pass.

08-31-09, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Strange experience for me to see me and a right-winged source agreeing that much on an issue!

Perhaps the reason is you are more of a pragmatist, than a leftist ideolog. Your posts on Islam show a distinct lack of left leaning ideas. If I may go a step or two further, I'd catagorize you as a pragmatic-nationalist.

It is not unsuprising that you often make comments which on the surface appear left leaning since the german press is for the most part a bastion of left leaning articles, at least as compared to nations outside the EU. This may be the natural reaction to the National Socialism which gripped Germany in the middle of the 20th Century. What is often lost on most folks is the word 'socialism' in the party's name.

To recap, I look at you and your writings as a product of your pragmatic-nationalist outlook.

I could be wrong, but that is how I see it. I mean no offence, and hope none is taken.
Cheers

08-30-09, 03:37 PM	#1
CastleBravo Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Obama punishes small country opposed to dictatorial ex-president Obama punishes small country because its courts opposed dictatorial ex-president's return to power. The Obama Administration has decided to block travel by the people of Honduras to the United States to punish their country for its Supreme Court's refusal to back the return to power of Honduras’s ex-president and would-be dictator, Manuel Zelaya, who is backed by left-wing Latin American dictators like Castro and Chavez. Obama’s decision came in response to a recent ruling by the Honduras Supreme Court, ruling that the removal of the country’s ex-president and would-be dictator was a perfectly lawful “constitutional succession,” http://www.examiner.com/x-7812-DC-SC...eturn-to-power

08-30-09, 03:40 PM	#2
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I wonder if this also stops Americans from traveling to Honduras? Some great scuba diving in Honduras. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

08-30-09, 03:51 PM	#4
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Never dived in Jamaica. Would not mind checking that out. Of course there are tons of great dive locations I have not been to..... yet. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

08-30-09, 04:49 PM	#5
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I like that move by Honduras - if for no other reason than that Chavez runs around with foam on his mouth. By Chavez' order, the Venezuelean (?) secret service had spend incredible efforts and huge ammounts of money is undermining Honduras and supporting the left opposition - which nevertheless constantly lost sympathies in the population until only every third citizen supported Zelaya anymore. To simply kick Chavez' Mini-Me out when he tried to manipulate the constitution to his and the left's favour, simply was clever, correct and courageous. It also shows that their supreme court and the army still remember the lessons from their past of dictatorships, a lesson that says: do not allow presidents to stay that long in power that they can silently ursupate more power again than is good for the country. My full support for kicking Zampano Zelaya - as long as the current interim president and the military keep their promise of free elections within the announced time table. Obama would be well-advised to limit his attempts in demonstrating political correctness here. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-30-09, 07:22 PM	#9
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	German: http://www.faz.net/s/RubDDBDABB9457A...or~Eprint.html __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-30-09, 05:09 PM	#6
CastleBravo Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	When a country's legislative and judicial branch, along with the vast majority of the people want Mr. Manuel Zelaya to leave office. I'd say the US should support that decision.

08-31-09, 12:20 PM	#12
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Congress told him not to try that referendum, and that he was risking severe civil unrest as well as resistance from the institutions. The Supreme court told him that he should not try it, and that he was accepting civil unrest for his own interests. The military surely also let him know. The catholic church was and is against him, both his left policies and his willingess to bring unrest over Honduras for the sake of his own powerinterests. The head of Honduras'S Central bank, Ramón Villeda Bermúdez, has complained massively about the Wetsern and especially the Spanish policy of legitmising very one-sidedly both Venezuelas and Cuba's attempts to bring Central America under leftist control, attacking especially the spanish for their attempts to enforce their biased tolerance for left policies in the region onto other western nations as well. Many intellectuals in Honduras have spoken out against what they call a misled and biased tolerance of wetsern nations for left regimes and policies in the region, and attacked the distorted perception of the West of the legal basis and the way Zelaya's ousting came to happen. From Zelaya's election to the day before he was ousted, support for him had fallen from once 60+ % of the population to roughly just one third of the population. resistance to the events folowing his arrest still is said to find noi majopirty amongst the population, with his followers formiung a faction of just around 40% of the population. there is no protest majority in honduras. There is a minority yelling loudas if it were twice as big in size - that is what it is. and Wetsenr media fall for it, like they fell for the lies of Saakashvili in Georgia. Zelaya indeed reminds me of Saakashvili, just that he has so far not order the masskilling of civilians, and ordered no war crimes, like Saakashvili did. First dismissing advice, then asking for trouble he broke lose himself - and then pathetically waving his arms and calling "Me victim! Me victim!" Zelaya really is one of a kind. The catholic church has begged him to stay away from Honduras and not try to return, for it would invite even more unrest and potential violence. Of course, as usual, he did not listen, and raised some pathetic publicity stunts. Armseliger Trottel. That big hat nevertheless did not shield him from too much sunlight, maybe. Congress and Supreme Court acted on behalf of valid Hondurean laws and the constitution. The catholic church, which is a respected moral authority in Honduras even beyond the circle of it's catholic community amongst the population, confirms that,a nd also calls the West intentionally misperceiving the actions taken. The military did not stage a coup by itself, but followed calls by the supreme court. To call the events a coup is simply absurd and total rubbish. It is lightyears apart from the coups central America has seen twenty years ago. Bolivias'S and Venezuela'S secret services are heavily engaged in destabalising the country and to push it into line with leftist regimes in the region. There should be pills against such stupidity. What drives Obama to fall for this Chavezian stunt, is beyond me. If the interim government fails to deliver on it's promise to hold election within the promised timeframe - then you can start talking of a "coup". Not earlier. that'S why Venezuela, Bolvia and Cuba are working so hard to get a situation where elections cannot be held over public unrest too severe. these cojht ries are not interested in an independent Honduras. They want it to be in the lefts' line, or they want it falling. That simple. Whatever this story is, before anything else it is the story of a failed coup of Bolivia, Venezuela and the centralamerican left to overthrow Honduras and make it a regime in line with the left project to bring all central America under it's control. And even while we talk here, Bolivian and Venezuelean secret agents are active in Honduras and try to fuel the fire and destabilize the country even more. Nice company they make. Only left regimes like Cuba can love to have them as neighbours. and stupid Westerners. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.