destroyers avoiding torpedoes

zepo · 03-06-09, 08:59 AM

Hi to everyone.I had a little problem with my last mission.I found two destroyers and a subkiller.I was in periscope depth and i decided to fire two torpedoes at the first and at the second dd.But i saw that somehow (i think that they see the torpedoe trail) they avoiding them.It happened once more later in the game.It was daytime and the sea was completely calm.If the attack was at night or at rough sea there were more possibilities to hit them?

Torplexed · 03-06-09, 09:16 AM

It's not just that they can see the torpedo trail coming. They can also hear the torpedo's high-pitched whine in their hydrophones, and a destroyer is quick enough to get out of the way even at short range. Destroyers are tough targets especially if they know you're there.

AngronIsAngry · 03-06-09, 11:01 AM

Sometime later in the game you will get electric propulsion torpedoes, which leave no trail on the surface. Actually until then, you will probably be as comfortable with the steamers to not bother with them.

With Destroyers and sometimes Merchants detecting your torpedoes, you'll have to expect and account for it in a way, but (sadly) there is no "magic" solution for this problem.
Anyways, you usually should be able to find juicier targets. Not to discourage you of killing Destroyers when possible. Heck, I was looking once for the Battle of the Coral Sea and all I found where a couple patrols of 1 Destroyer and 1 Gun Boat. Killing these Destroyers backfired when I got ordered to photo recon the carrier presence at Raboul. Finding two stationary carriers and a load of patroling destroyers, made me curse about using most of my torps prior.

Oh and, welcome to the SubSim [Insert Dramatic Music]

Ping Panther · 03-06-09, 01:03 PM

Welcome to SubSim zepo,

DD's are sneaks & are always a tempting target when there may not be much else. Some rougher sea and night may help with your steamer hits. But, it may be better to just make a run for a larger ship next time. Good hunting!

Te Kaha · 03-06-09, 01:15 PM

I like to attack them when they stop and listen. With electric-propulsion torpedos it's almost always a kill.

Etienne · 03-06-09, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Te Kaha

I like to attack them when they stop and listen. With electric-propulsion torpedos it's almost always a kill.

If you're close enough.

My favorite is the down-the-throat, throught the stern tube, last-chance-or-we-die shot at an attacking destroyer. Gets the adrenaline pumping.

I also love the accidental destroyer destruction, when they manoeuver into a torp that was meant for someone else. It's more annoying when you hit the Small Old Engine Aft with three torps that were meant for the Large Modern Tanker, tho

Berinhardt · 03-06-09, 06:08 PM

When attacking destroyers from the side, I try to get as close as possible (<600 yards) to give them as little time as possible to hear and react to the torpedo. Aim for the bow, to ensure that you'll hit the destroyer when it accelerates.

When I'm evading destroyers after a convoy attack, I've had great success in circling around them and attacking them from behind where they can't me or the torpedo coming. At the worst case, I'll damage their engines. Most of the time, the depth charges on the aft deck explode as well.

I would like to start experimenting with launching cuties at 90 feet while they circle overhead.

Munchausen · 03-06-09, 07:43 PM

Add to that the fact destroyers accelerate unreasonably fast in SH4. Take a look here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=148591

Frame57 · 03-06-09, 07:46 PM

The American boats have the slow homing torpedo. I like to set a couple of those after a destroyer. At the very least the destroyer will be out of your hair while you engage a merchant or two.

jazzabilly · 03-06-09, 08:04 PM

Historically, sub skippers used the "fan shot" on DD's. Using 3 or four fish, set them shallow, then fire them with bow angles of 1.5, 2, 3 and perhaps 3.5 deg. respectively corresponding to the DD's direction (i.e. if he's going to your right, set right angle, to your left, left bow angle). If you are using early war torpedoes, set the fuses on magnetic (contact influence). This will stack the odds in your favor.

Then slam on the speed and dive like a S.O.B., 'cause you're in for a pounding.

If that seems wasteful of torpedoes, consider that if the weather is clear, they are going to have an easier time finding you and DC'ing you. Sometimes it's kill or be killed.

Oh, and by the by - you need to add the "down the throat" shot to your repetoire.

zepo · 03-06-09, 09:08 PM

thanks to everyone for your replies.I was playing for about 3-4 years sh3 with the GWX mod and if i was aiming at about 90 degrees a dd was almost a certain kill.And now at the sh4 i thought that it was a little bit strange.I also think that munchausen has a point.They accelerate unreasonably.And as Ettiene I also love the accidental destroyer hits!!!!Anyway thanks guys for your replies!!!!I must leave...I have to deploy to Makasar Strait.

zepo · 03-06-09, 09:18 PM

Oh and as for the down the throat kill I have done it only once at the Aegean sea with a VII type if i remember well.It was amazing and I was thinking that a kill like that was a little bit fake,you know very action movie style.I dont know if it was posible in real life.(It is the kill when a dd hunts you,its right behind you and you fire a torpedoe from your stern tubes right?)

Torplexed · 03-06-09, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepo

Oh and as for the down the throat kill I have done it only once at the Aegean sea with a VII type if i remember well.It was amazing and I was thinking that a kill like that was a little bit fake,you know very action movie style.I dont know if it was posible in real life.(It is the kill when a dd hunts you,its right behind you and you fire a torpedoe from your stern tubes right?)

In the Pacific it was often literally down the throat. A bow tube shot with both ships closing fast head-to-head. A tough shot to make since you aiming at the very narrow bow aspect of a destroyer instead of at it's broadside.

Platapus · 03-06-09, 10:18 PM

Does SH4 actually model whether the ship's crew can see the torpedo wake and have the AI react?

jazzabilly · 03-06-09, 11:45 PM

My technique for the "down the throat" shot. A true DTT shot requires 3 fish. One "straight down", one @ 1 deg. port angle, one @ 1 deg. starboard. If the target is inclining toward either side (i.e. 20+ AOB)I will fire an additional fish 2-3 deg. to that side. I find that with this technique the tincan will veer to one side or the other, and takes one broadside, which, if not a dud or too deep, will blow him to hell.

Personally, I think it works better if he can see the tracks coming at him. So I try not to use my electrics for this. I want him to veer away.

03-06-09, 08:59 AM	#1
zepo Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	destroyers avoiding torpedoes Hi to everyone.I had a little problem with my last mission.I found two destroyers and a subkiller.I was in periscope depth and i decided to fire two torpedoes at the first and at the second dd.But i saw that somehow (i think that they see the torpedoe trail) they avoiding them.It happened once more later in the game.It was daytime and the sea was completely calm.If the attack was at night or at rough sea there were more possibilities to hit them?

03-06-09, 11:01 AM	#3
AngronIsAngry Mate Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 53 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	Sometime later in the game you will get electric propulsion torpedoes, which leave no trail on the surface. Actually until then, you will probably be as comfortable with the steamers to not bother with them. With Destroyers and sometimes Merchants detecting your torpedoes, you'll have to expect and account for it in a way, but (sadly) there is no "magic" solution for this problem. Anyways, you usually should be able to find juicier targets. Not to discourage you of killing Destroyers when possible. Heck, I was looking once for the Battle of the Coral Sea and all I found where a couple patrols of 1 Destroyer and 1 Gun Boat. Killing these Destroyers backfired when I got ordered to photo recon the carrier presence at Raboul. Finding two stationary carriers and a load of patroling destroyers, made me curse about using most of my torps prior. Oh and, welcome to the SubSim [Insert Dramatic Music] __________________ "No Boom?" "No Boom, today. Maybe Boom tomorrow. Things always go Boom!"

03-06-09, 01:15 PM	#5
Te Kaha Navy Dude Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austrian landlubber Posts: 178 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 2	I like to attack them when they stop and listen. With electric-propulsion torpedos it's almost always a kill. __________________ "E hoa, ka whawhai tonu mātou, Āke! Āke! Āke!" (Friend, we will fight on forever, forever and forever!) Rewi Maniapoto's reply to British calls for surrender, Orakau, 1864

03-06-09, 06:08 PM	#7
Berinhardt Seaman Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 37 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sneak Attack When attacking destroyers from the side, I try to get as close as possible (<600 yards) to give them as little time as possible to hear and react to the torpedo. Aim for the bow, to ensure that you'll hit the destroyer when it accelerates. When I'm evading destroyers after a convoy attack, I've had great success in circling around them and attacking them from behind where they can't me or the torpedo coming. At the worst case, I'll damage their engines. Most of the time, the depth charges on the aft deck explode as well. I would like to start experimenting with launching cuties at 90 feet while they circle overhead. __________________ ================\|================== Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat. John Lehman (1942 - ), Secretary of the Navy, 1981-1987

03-06-09, 07:46 PM	#9
Frame57 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: 1300 feet on the crapper Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The American boats have the slow homing torpedo. I like to set a couple of those after a destroyer. At the very least the destroyer will be out of your hair while you engage a merchant or two. __________________ "My Religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds." Albert Einstein

03-06-09, 09:16 AM	#2
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	It's not just that they can see the torpedo trail coming. They can also hear the torpedo's high-pitched whine in their hydrophones, and a destroyer is quick enough to get out of the way even at short range. Destroyers are tough targets especially if they know you're there.

03-06-09, 01:03 PM	#4
Ping Panther Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: the armpit of the Mid-Atlantic / Quadrant CA42 Posts: 262 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Welcome to SubSim zepo, DD's are sneaks & are always a tempting target when there may not be much else. Some rougher sea and night may help with your steamer hits. But, it may be better to just make a run for a larger ship next time. Good hunting!

03-06-09, 07:43 PM	#8
Munchausen Commodore Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 608 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	Add to that the fact destroyers accelerate unreasonably fast in SH4. Take a look here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=148591

03-06-09, 08:04 PM	#10
jazzabilly Planesman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 186 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Historically, sub skippers used the "fan shot" on DD's. Using 3 or four fish, set them shallow, then fire them with bow angles of 1.5, 2, 3 and perhaps 3.5 deg. respectively corresponding to the DD's direction (i.e. if he's going to your right, set right angle, to your left, left bow angle). If you are using early war torpedoes, set the fuses on magnetic (contact influence). This will stack the odds in your favor. Then slam on the speed and dive like a S.O.B., 'cause you're in for a pounding. If that seems wasteful of torpedoes, consider that if the weather is clear, they are going to have an easier time finding you and DC'ing you. Sometimes it's kill or be killed. Oh, and by the by - you need to add the "down the throat" shot to your repetoire. __________________ If it's a fair fight, then you didn't plan it properly. ==================================== Last edited by jazzabilly; 03-06-09 at 08:25 PM.

03-06-09, 09:08 PM	#11
zepo Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	thanks to everyone for your replies.I was playing for about 3-4 years sh3 with the GWX mod and if i was aiming at about 90 degrees a dd was almost a certain kill.And now at the sh4 i thought that it was a little bit strange.I also think that munchausen has a point.They accelerate unreasonably.And as Ettiene I also love the accidental destroyer hits!!!!Anyway thanks guys for your replies!!!!I must leave...I have to deploy to Makasar Strait.

03-06-09, 09:18 PM	#12
zepo Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Oh and as for the down the throat kill I have done it only once at the Aegean sea with a VII type if i remember well.It was amazing and I was thinking that a kill like that was a little bit fake,you know very action movie style.I dont know if it was posible in real life.(It is the kill when a dd hunts you,its right behind you and you fire a torpedoe from your stern tubes right?)

03-06-09, 10:18 PM	#14
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Does SH4 actually model whether the ship's crew can see the torpedo wake and have the AI react? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

03-06-09, 11:45 PM	#15
jazzabilly Planesman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 186 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	My technique for the "down the throat" shot. A true DTT shot requires 3 fish. One "straight down", one @ 1 deg. port angle, one @ 1 deg. starboard. If the target is inclining toward either side (i.e. 20+ AOB)I will fire an additional fish 2-3 deg. to that side. I find that with this technique the tincan will veer to one side or the other, and takes one broadside, which, if not a dud or too deep, will blow him to hell. Personally, I think it works better if he can see the tracks coming at him. So I try not to use my electrics for this. I want him to veer away. __________________ If it's a fair fight, then you didn't plan it properly. ====================================