German armed forced get again dedicated medal for valor

Skybird · 10-10-08, 08:55 AM

After WW2, dedicated medals for courage were politically most uncorrect, the history of the Iron Cross appeared to be too questionable.

The new medal copies hspae and form of then Iron Cross, but is not called as that but "Honour-Medal of the Bundeswehr for Valor" (Ehrenmedaille der Bundeswehr für Tapferkeit), or short: Ehrenkreuz für Tapferkeit (Honour Cross for Valor).

Picture here:
http://www.welt.de/politik/article25...-Soldaten.html

the problem, imo, is that the Iron Cross by far is not just a Nazi medal, but has had a much longer history. And that forms a tradition. The new medal now is just this: new, without any meaning or tradition. Seen that way, it may face difficulties to get accepted and respected. It is tradition and history that makes the value of such a decoration. If history and tradition is missing, it is not more than a piece of metal with som colour attached to it.

they should have re-accepted a medal for valor (before, there were none), yes, but they really should have called it the Iron Cross. After all, it is the symbol of Germany's Armed Forces - today.

Also see:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...0&postcount=13

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ght=Iron+Cross

10-10-08, 09:39 AM

Agreed. Contrary to popular believe the Iron cross was first issued during the napoleonic aera, in the wars for independence 1813. Agreed to all your points. Unluckily the polititians lack the balls for a propper reintroduction, fearing the backslash of WW2, not giving the iron cross any chance to win back its traditional reputation and respect.

That was predictable, however.

10-10-08, 10:53 AM

I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish

Digital_Trucker · 10-10-08, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamingboat

I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish

10-10-08, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamingboat

I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish

your preferences for languages out of this, I seriously doubt you'd enjoy a german victory nowadays.

10-10-08, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamingboat

I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish

your preferences for languages out of this, I seriously doubt you'd enjoy a german victory nowadays.

Germany didn't have a problem with us during the "European war". The powerful European banking families drug us into it just like in world war 1.

kiwi_2005 · 10-10-08, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamingboat

I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish

Are you out of your mind!

Hylander_1314 · 10-10-08, 11:31 AM

Yes but would ethnic cleansing apply to you? I had many cousins who came to America after the war ended, and they did not paint a very pretty picture of what went on during the NAZI regime.

It would really be nice to see the order Poure Le Merit come back into fashion. A very stunning medal in it's visual appearance. I think Frederick the Great created this one.

The only reason I would prefer Deutche over Espanol is I used to speak it as a youngster growing up, until grampa forbade it after I started school. He said, you're an American, speak english. You're not in Germany. I think he did that, since the adults would use Greman, Polish, Austrian, and Ukranian if they didn't want the kids to know what was being said.

Letum · 10-10-08, 01:14 PM

This new medal may lack tradition, but that is something it can gain in time.

It's probably the best solution. A good compromise.

10-10-08, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Yes but would ethnic cleansing apply to you?

No, I'm 6 feet tall and white. I could easily play a German extra in Das Boot or any world war 2 movie. I wouldn't say I would have liked them to win if I was jewish obviously. I'm not, so it doesn't concern me. I know the Palestinians would sure have liked Germany to win. I know this is not PC to say, but Israel has shown they are just as brutal by the way they have been treating their neighbors over the past several decades. Of course we are supposed to ignore this because they were the victims in world war 2.

Hylander_1314 · 10-10-08, 01:29 PM

But it did not apply to just Jewish People. There were something like another 5,000,000 Europeans who perished in the camps too. Poles, Czechs, French, Russian, Ukrainian, and people from other sovereign nations on the continent. Germans and Austrians included.

Poles for instance were looked upon as slave labor and fit for nothing else. Russians too were looked upon as subhumans for slave labor, and extermination. Although the Germans used Ukrainians as partisans.

It was a revolting regime, on a brutality level in human numbers that hadn't been seen in quite some time.

But lets not get too far off topic, as the thread does apply to modern times. And Germany is not a bad nation. They are a respectable people with great fortitude to overcome the images of the past.

Task Force · 10-10-08, 01:50 PM

They always have to change everything, Look at Japan, They still keep there WW2 flag, But look at some of the horiable things they did.

Skybird · 10-10-08, 03:51 PM

Let'S keep the nasty stuff out of here, please. The Third Reich should have won WWII? Hell, we all should feel glad it didn't. It would have been hell on earth. And for many it was.

PeriscopeDepth · 10-10-08, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Let'S keep the nasty stuff out of here, please. The Third Reich should have won WWII? Hell, we all should feel glad it didn't. It would have been hell on earth. And for many it was.

Well said Sky. And as for the medal, it seems to have far far more tradition than a Nazi merit badge. And there should be no fear in honoring military tradition like that.

PD

mrbeast · 10-10-08, 04:43 PM

Every medal was new at some point it will gain tradition and become an honour in time.

BTW Hylander_1314, agree on the Pour Le Merit, lovely medal.

Skybird, well said.

10-10-08, 08:55 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	German armed forces get again dedicated medal for valor After WW2, dedicated medals for courage were politically most uncorrect, the history of the Iron Cross appeared to be too questionable. The new medal copies hspae and form of then Iron Cross, but is not called as that but "Honour-Medal of the Bundeswehr for Valor" (Ehrenmedaille der Bundeswehr für Tapferkeit), or short: Ehrenkreuz für Tapferkeit (Honour Cross for Valor). Picture here: http://www.welt.de/politik/article25...-Soldaten.html the problem, imo, is that the Iron Cross by far is not just a Nazi medal, but has had a much longer history. And that forms a tradition. The new medal now is just this: new, without any meaning or tradition. Seen that way, it may face difficulties to get accepted and respected. It is tradition and history that makes the value of such a decoration. If history and tradition is missing, it is not more than a piece of metal with som colour attached to it. they should have re-accepted a medal for valor (before, there were none), yes, but they really should have called it the Iron Cross. After all, it is the symbol of Germany's Armed Forces - today. Also see: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...0&postcount=13 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ght=Iron+Cross __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 10-10-08 at 04:50 PM.

10-10-08, 11:31 AM	#8
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Yes but would ethnic cleansing apply to you? I had many cousins who came to America after the war ended, and they did not paint a very pretty picture of what went on during the NAZI regime. It would really be nice to see the order Poure Le Merit come back into fashion. A very stunning medal in it's visual appearance. I think Frederick the Great created this one. The only reason I would prefer Deutche over Espanol is I used to speak it as a youngster growing up, until grampa forbade it after I started school. He said, you're an American, speak english. You're not in Germany. I think he did that, since the adults would use Greman, Polish, Austrian, and Ukranian if they didn't want the kids to know what was being said. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

10-10-08, 01:14 PM	#9
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	This new medal may lack tradition, but that is something it can gain in time. It's probably the best solution. A good compromise. __________________

10-10-08, 01:29 PM	#11
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	But it did not apply to just Jewish People. There were something like another 5,000,000 Europeans who perished in the camps too. Poles, Czechs, French, Russian, Ukrainian, and people from other sovereign nations on the continent. Germans and Austrians included. Poles for instance were looked upon as slave labor and fit for nothing else. Russians too were looked upon as subhumans for slave labor, and extermination. Although the Germans used Ukrainians as partisans. It was a revolting regime, on a brutality level in human numbers that hadn't been seen in quite some time. But lets not get too far off topic, as the thread does apply to modern times. And Germany is not a bad nation. They are a respectable people with great fortitude to overcome the images of the past. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

10-10-08, 01:50 PM	#12
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	They always have to change everything, Look at Japan, They still keep there WW2 flag, But look at some of the horiable things they did. __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"

10-10-08, 09:39 AM	#2
Bewolf Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Agreed. Contrary to popular believe the Iron cross was first issued during the napoleonic aera, in the wars for independence 1813. Agreed to all your points. Unluckily the polititians lack the balls for a propper reintroduction, fearing the backslash of WW2, not giving the iron cross any chance to win back its traditional reputation and respect. That was predictable, however.

10-10-08, 10:53 AM	#3
Flamingboat Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish

10-10-08, 03:51 PM	#13
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Let'S keep the nasty stuff out of here, please. The Third Reich should have won WWII? Hell, we all should feel glad it didn't. It would have been hell on earth. And for many it was. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-10-08, 04:43 PM	#15
mrbeast Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bolton, UK Posts: 1,236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Every medal was new at some point it will gain tradition and become an honour in time. BTW Hylander_1314, agree on the Pour Le Merit, lovely medal. Skybird, well said. __________________