Russia to withdraw from NATO-Russia council completely.

[Skybird]

Political Aikido - they took the energy from the NATO freezing of meetings and used it to slam it into their face with even more energy. I asujme not many have expected such a move.

Geman media have started to report it, referring to the norwegian defense ministry that confirmed to have received a prewarning by russia that the official announcement of russia shutting membership in that council down will follow later this day. If they are serious, it has de facto seized to exist.

Now I am wondering, I did expect them to ignore NATO's to be expected but toothless threat to freeze council meetings, and simply leave it to that. Was it the haughty tone that they got queer - " if you do not behave nicely according to our rules, we will not allow you to sit at one table with the adults, you bad, bad little boy?" Or do they act in recognition of that all those meetings in the past 10, 15 years only led to them being told sweet words while NATO did like it wanted, ignoring completely what Russia thought about such acts? Maybe they came to the conlcusion that all these glass perls they had been offered simply are worth nothing to them.

Or is it a reaction that today the missile shield agreement between the US and Poland officially had been signed? That project has no causal relation to the Georgian event, and would have come anyway, no matter Georgia, no matter Russia. russia never have said anything different than that the installation of missiles and far_ranging high resolution radars so close to it's border would be a provocation that Russia under no circumstances would tolerate and let go by unanswered. - I think this is it.

Mikhail Gorbatchev made some comments in the NYT, and I think it is wise to listen to what he has to say. He sees it from a Russian perspective, but is under no pressure to follow any official agenda or policy by the current government. Different to the emotion-filled tirades and paroles many Western politicians have fired, I find his remarks and explanations quite agreeable, and adding balance back to the overall assessment. I think it would be wise to consider what he has to say.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/op...gewanted=print

[bold-italic by me)

THE acute phase of the crisis provoked by the Georgian forces’ assault on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, is now behind us. But how can one erase from memory the horrifying scenes of the nighttime rocket attack on a peaceful town, the razing of entire city blocks, the deaths of people taking cover in basements, the destruction of ancient monuments and ancestral graves?
Russia did not want this crisis. The Russian leadership is in a strong enough position domestically; it did not need a little victorious war. Russia was dragged into the fray by the recklessness of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili. He would not have dared to attack without outside support. Once he did, Russia could not afford inaction.

The decision by the Russian president, Dmitri Medvedev, to now cease hostilities was the right move by a responsible leader. The Russian president acted calmly, confidently and firmly. Anyone who expected confusion in Moscow was disappointed.
The planners of this campaign clearly wanted to make sure that, whatever the outcome, Russia would be blamed for worsening the situation. The West then mounted a propaganda attack against Russia, with the American news media leading the way.

The news coverage has been far from fair and balanced, especially during the first days of the crisis. Tskhinvali was in smoking ruins and thousands of people were fleeing — before any Russian troops arrived. Yet Russia was already being accused of aggression; news reports were often an embarrassing recitation of the Georgian leader’s deceptive statements.

It is still not quite clear whether the West was aware of Mr. Saakashvili’s plans to invade South Ossetia, and this is a serious matter. What is clear is that Western assistance in training Georgian troops and shipping large supplies of arms had been pushing the region toward war rather than peace.

If this military misadventure was a surprise for the Georgian leader’s foreign patrons, so much the worse. It looks like a classic wag-the-dog story.

Mr. Saakashvili had been lavished with praise for being a staunch American ally and a real democrat — and for helping out in Iraq. Now America’s friend has wrought disorder, and all of us — the Europeans and, most important, the region’s innocent civilians — must pick up the pieces.

Those who rush to judgment on what’s happening in the Caucasus, or those who seek influence there, should first have at least some idea of this region’s complexities. The Ossetians live both in Georgia and in Russia. The region is a patchwork of ethnic groups living in close proximity. Therefore, all talk of “this is our land,” “we are liberating our land,” is meaningless. We must think about the people who live on the land.

The problems of the Caucasus region cannot be solved by force. That has been tried more than once in the past two decades, and it has always boomeranged.

What is needed is a legally binding agreement not to use force. Mr. Saakashvili has repeatedly refused to sign such an agreement, for reasons that have now become abundantly clear.

The West would be wise to help achieve such an agreement now. If, instead, it chooses to blame Russia and re-arm Georgia, as American officials are suggesting, a new crisis will be inevitable. In that case, expect the worst.

In recent days, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and President Bush have been promising to isolate Russia. Some American politicians have threatened to expel it from the Group of 8 industrialized nations, to abolish the NATO-Russia Council and to keep Russia out of the World Trade Organization.

These are empty threats. For some time now, Russians have been wondering: If our opinion counts for nothing in those institutions, do we really need them? Just to sit at the nicely set dinner table and listen to lectures?

Indeed, Russia has long been told to simply accept the facts. Here’s the independence of Kosovo for you. Here’s the abrogation of the Antiballistic Missile Treaty, and the American decision to place missile defenses in neighboring countries. Here’s the unending expansion of NATO. All of these moves have been set against the backdrop of sweet talk about partnership. Why would anyone put up with such a charade?

There is much talk now in the United States about rethinking relations with Russia. One thing that should definitely be rethought: the habit of talking to Russia in a condescending way, without regard for its positions and interests.

Our two countries could develop a serious agenda for genuine, rather than token, cooperation. Many Americans, as well as Russians, understand the need for this. But is the same true of the political leaders?

A bipartisan commission led by Senator Chuck Hagel and former Senator Gary Hart has recently been established at Harvard to report on American-Russian relations to Congress and the next president. It includes serious people, and, judging by the commission’s early statements, its members understand the importance of Russia and the importance of constructive bilateral relations.

But the members of this commission should be careful. Their mandate is to present “policy recommendations for a new administration to advance America’s national interests in relations with Russia.” If that alone is the goal, then I doubt that much good will come out of it. If, however, the commission is ready to also consider the interests of the other side and of common security, it may actually help rebuild trust between Russia and the United States and allow them to start doing useful work together.

edit:

and just in: Syria offers itself as new base for Russian missiles to counter the latest NATO moves.

[Happy Times]

I agree, that was as balanced as Gorbatchov can be, compared to the even more paranoid comments he has given before.

[Happy Times]

Hope the Russians give everything the Syrians ask, and some reactors to Iran, we can stop pretending and get this show going.

[Schroeder]

I hope you will be at front line then.

[Bruno Lotse]

Why wait?
Go to Georgia

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I hope you will be at front line then.

We are on the frontline, but this is going to be a Cold War.

[Onkel Neal]

Indeed, Russia has long been told to simply accept the facts. Here’s the independence of Kosovo for you. Here’s the abrogation of the Antiballistic Missile Treaty, and the American decision to place missile defenses in neighboring countries. Here’s the unending expansion of NATO. All of these moves have been set against the backdrop of sweet talk about partnership. Why would anyone put up with such a charade?

There is much talk now in the United States about rethinking relations with Russia. One thing that should definitely be rethought: the habit of talking to Russia in a condescending way, without regard for its positions and interests.

Russia's like that neighbor down the street that borrows money and tools, needs help with their fence and roof, and complains the loudest at the community meeting. They will accept the facts, and their behavior will end up driving all the former Soviet republics into NATO's camp. When the oil bubble pops, their economy will flounder and they'll be asking for help again.

[Happy Times]

Found some "Gorba" from 07 May.

"Every US president has to have a war."

"Russia does not have enemies and Putin is not going to start a war against the United States or any other country for that matter."

"I sometimes have a feeling that the United States is going to wage war against the entire world."

"He railed against a "military-industrial complex" that he insisted was the "real government" of the US and, quoting a Russian documentary on state television, suggested that Margaret Thatcher had supplied weapons to Chechen terrorists."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Cold-War.html

They have this self creating "prophecy" in Moscow, nothing we can do to appease these feelings without giving up all our interests.

[August]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Russia's like that neighbor down the street that borrows money and tools, needs help with their fence and roof, and complains the loudest at the community meeting. They will accept the facts, and their behavior will end up driving all the former Soviet republics into NATO's camp. When the oil bubble pops, their economy will flounder and they'll be asking for help again.

This ^

[joea]

Originally Posted by August

This ^

Yes, there economy is what 10% of the US??

[Bruno Lotse]

Yeah, but their guys don't join their army just to get college paid

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Bruno Lotse

Yeah, but their guys don't join their army just to get college paid

And they dont get college payed, they get beaten and raped in the ass.:p

[Sailor Steve]

No, their guys join the army so they can get something to eat.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Bruno Lotse

Yeah, but their guys don't join their army just to get college paid

Maybe, if "their guys" did join the army to get college paid and then actually went to college, they would have more intelligent leaders.

[Bruno Lotse]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No, their guys join the army so they can get something to eat.

rich country = rich trophies