Prussian Tradition Alive and Well in South America

Brag · 05-20-08, 05:28 PM

Would you have thought?

Goose steppers

Panzerlied:

Skybird · 05-20-08, 05:52 PM

Prussian? Only as long as Prussia=Third Reich. Which counts as a false info. Me thinks the image of Prussia having been nothing more than a past "rogue" nation only, is incomplete and misleading, at least this. they never were loved in past centuries, nevertheless when being needed to throw back Napoleon in the deciding moments and defend Europe'S freedom from French tyranny - they were there, and in strength, without compromise and with an unshaken sense of obligation. This also should be remembered before one is dooming them for the Third Reich abusing what in the widest sense could be called the Prussian heritage. the Nazis did that with many other symbols and values as well: from the meaning of work, over sense of duty, to the Swastika.

kurtz · 05-21-08, 02:44 AM

Actually I think also a lot of the heritage is English (certainly the Navy) a bit of a giveaway might be the venue..Parque O'Higgins.

Also labelling a bit wrong the 3rd one is goosestepping. You know I liked these except for the guy driving around in a staff car, bit dull that.

Happy Times · 05-21-08, 10:39 AM

I think this march is banned in Germany.

Brag · 05-21-08, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurtz

Actually I think also a lot of the heritage is English (certainly the Navy) a bit of a giveaway might be the venue..Parque O'Higgins.

Also labelling a bit wrong the 3rd one is goosestepping. You know I liked these except for the guy driving around in a staff car, bit dull that.

The Army was reorganized around 1818 with the help of Prussian officers and the military school established. It proved itself in two wars against Peru and Bolivia, the last in 1879 where for the first time torpedoes, electric mines and machine guns were used.

The Navy followed the Royal Navy. All submarine commanders have gone through the Perishers' course at Gosport.

Brag · 05-21-08, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Times

I think this march is banned in Germany.

In German it's called Erika

Happy Times · 05-21-08, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Times

I think this march is banned in Germany.

In German it's called Erika

Yes, i know.
Finnish defence forces Prussian tradition comes from the Jägers that were trained in Germany 1914-18 and formed the core of the officer corps.
There was also German advisors present during the forming of the Army in 1918.

GlobalExplorer · 05-21-08, 01:38 PM

I am probably the only one here who is prussian. my ancestors are from west prussia (today poland) and anyways Berlin is still populated mostly by people who count as prussian.

Yet maybe it is allowed to state that i do not like to watch these videos. I side with skybird inasfar as throwing prussia and the nazis in one bag is highly superficial, and certainly prussia as a former nation has a history of it's own, which goes far beyond the militaristic image. In fact it is also about positive values like protestant reform, commerce, science, tolerance (hence the many french/dutch/jewish influences in berlin). But still a major factor is the militaristic efficiency that has been copied by some of the most inhumane forces (nazis, gdr, russia), and therefore imo it is allowed to be repulsed by these new excrescents in south america or anywhere else.

These images instantly remind of the nazi marches. Even if this has only to with the march music which is clearly in the prussian tradition, it is still a fact.

Happy Times · 05-21-08, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

These images instantly remind of the nazi marches. Even if this has only to with the march music which is clearly in the prussian tradition, it is still a fact.

I was in Helsinki 16.5 at the Finnish War of Independence victory day celebration and the German military was present also. Band played two beutiful pieces of music to remember the fallen and both countries anthems. I dont associate German military marches with Nazis. Military tradition shouldn be mixed with politics, traditions are an integral part of any army.

AntEater · 05-22-08, 03:43 PM

Military traditions in Germany is a definite yes-no, with a split only a german could manage.
Except for "Erika" (which was mostly a Waffen-SS song) much of the 3rd Reich military music is still in use, at least those without direct Nazi connections.
Erika is not banned per se, AFAIK, it is just banned in the Bundeswehr.
Problem is, verses concerning death and dying for the Fatherland are removed.
So you can sing the first verses of the Panzerlied allright, but not the one with the "iron grave".

But these are not legal bans, but rather internal service regulations.
The only song you can get punished for is the Horst Wessel song, and that should be limited to a fine if you sing it in public.

Classical german military music is alive and well as military music can be in the 21st century.

05-20-08, 05:28 PM	#1
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Prussian Tradition Alive and Well in South America Would you have thought? Goose steppers Panzerlied: __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/ Last edited by Brag; 05-20-08 at 05:43 PM.

05-20-08, 05:52 PM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,601 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Prussian? Only as long as Prussia=Third Reich. Which counts as a false info. Me thinks the image of Prussia having been nothing more than a past "rogue" nation only, is incomplete and misleading, at least this. they never were loved in past centuries, nevertheless when being needed to throw back Napoleon in the deciding moments and defend Europe'S freedom from French tyranny - they were there, and in strength, without compromise and with an unshaken sense of obligation. This also should be remembered before one is dooming them for the Third Reich abusing what in the widest sense could be called the Prussian heritage. the Nazis did that with many other symbols and values as well: from the meaning of work, over sense of duty, to the Swastika. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-21-08, 02:44 AM	#3
kurtz Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leighton Buzzard,England Posts: 660 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Actually I think also a lot of the heritage is English (certainly the Navy) a bit of a giveaway might be the venue..Parque O'Higgins. Also labelling a bit wrong the 3rd one is goosestepping. You know I liked these except for the guy driving around in a staff car, bit dull that. __________________ War without Fire is like sausages without mustard-Henry V. http://www.myvintagelife.co.uk/

05-21-08, 10:39 AM	#4
Happy Times Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 2,950 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I think this march is banned in Germany. __________________

05-21-08, 01:38 PM	#8
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	I am probably the only one here who is prussian. my ancestors are from west prussia (today poland) and anyways Berlin is still populated mostly by people who count as prussian. Yet maybe it is allowed to state that i do not like to watch these videos. I side with skybird inasfar as throwing prussia and the nazis in one bag is highly superficial, and certainly prussia as a former nation has a history of it's own, which goes far beyond the militaristic image. In fact it is also about positive values like protestant reform, commerce, science, tolerance (hence the many french/dutch/jewish influences in berlin). But still a major factor is the militaristic efficiency that has been copied by some of the most inhumane forces (nazis, gdr, russia), and therefore imo it is allowed to be repulsed by these new excrescents in south america or anywhere else. These images instantly remind of the nazi marches. Even if this has only to with the march music which is clearly in the prussian tradition, it is still a fact. __________________

05-22-08, 03:43 PM	#10
AntEater Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 936 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Military traditions in Germany is a definite yes-no, with a split only a german could manage. Except for "Erika" (which was mostly a Waffen-SS song) much of the 3rd Reich military music is still in use, at least those without direct Nazi connections. Erika is not banned per se, AFAIK, it is just banned in the Bundeswehr. Problem is, verses concerning death and dying for the Fatherland are removed. So you can sing the first verses of the Panzerlied allright, but not the one with the "iron grave". But these are not legal bans, but rather internal service regulations. The only song you can get punished for is the Horst Wessel song, and that should be limited to a fine if you sing it in public. Classical german military music is alive and well as military music can be in the 21st century. __________________